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Lucille pulls another one on me....

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by MaxPete, Jul 30, 2018.

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  1. MaxPete

    MaxPete Lucille, Betty, Demi & Gretel: I ask, THEY decide. XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Hi all:

    Jim has kindly offered to post an amateur video of an odd new noise that my 1976 C-model began making last night after a spirited ride.

    She starts and runs fine - but there is a rapping / knocking sound that I’m sure wasn’t there before. This morning I adjusted the timing chain and the valves (the RH exhaust was a bit loose - but not excessively). I then did a head re-torque, which went fine.

    ....but, the noise is still there.

    Any thoughts - or is it just my imagination?
     
    Jim likes this.
  2. Jim

    Jim Beyond the edge is the unknown. Here be Dragons XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Here's the video....

     
    robinc likes this.
  3. MaxPete

    MaxPete Lucille, Betty, Demi & Gretel: I ask, THEY decide. XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Thanks Jim!

    So folks, aside from making you airsick, what do you think of that video? I was trying get sounds from all around the bike while keeping it short.

    To my ears, the noise is up high in the engine - in the head, but maybe I’m just hearing things.

    Any thoughts / comments?
     
  4. TwoManyXS1Bs

    TwoManyXS1Bs BBQ Hunter Top Contributor

    Yeah, Pete, doesn't sound good.
    At an idle speed of about 1200rpms, camshaft sounds will be about 10hz, about what your sound is. Reminds me of "flat tappet", when a hydraulic lifter fails.

    Take your mechanics stethoscope,
    MechanicsStethoscope.jpg

    And probe the top of the camcover, where the rocker shafts fit. The outer probe points, marked "probe1" (in red), will be easy to reach. The inner points, probe2 (in purple), may be more difficult.
    (Camcover pic courtesy of Robinc)
    Robinc-CamCover01b.jpg

    You'll hear the sound at all these points, you'll want to find which is the loudest.

    Once found, pull the valvecover, and flashlight inspect in there. Check the springs, the tappet end, the valve tip, and (deep inside) the cam lobe. You can slowly rotate the engine to see all of the lobe surface. You're looking for scuff marks and discoloration. Report back.

    Edit: Here's a pic of a really bad adjuster tip.
    CrateredTip02.jpg

    And, a pic of good adjusters.
    gggGary-9mm-tappets.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2018
  5. MaxPete

    MaxPete Lucille, Betty, Demi & Gretel: I ask, THEY decide. XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Thanks for the suggestions 2M - say, can I get that cam cover off with the engine in the bike?

    Coincidentally, I just got a stethoscope at Harbor Fright the other day and in anticipation of top end jobs on my two bikes, I picked up two sets of elephants feet adjusters a few weeks back.

    Karma - lovely. :redface:
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2018
    Jim, Mailman, robinc and 1 other person like this.
  6. TwoManyXS1Bs

    TwoManyXS1Bs BBQ Hunter Top Contributor

    Sorry, Pete, no. Gotta pull the engine.

    Unless you want to saw the backbone off. :yikes:

    The stethoscope is a cool tool.
    Be advised, you'll hear things you've never heard before.

    Load up on anxiety meds before use...
     
    gggGary, Jim, Mailman and 2 others like this.
  7. MaxPete

    MaxPete Lucille, Betty, Demi & Gretel: I ask, THEY decide. XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Will do!

    P
     
    Jim likes this.
  8. TwoManyXS1Bs

    TwoManyXS1Bs BBQ Hunter Top Contributor

    Jim and Paul Sutton like this.
  9. Paul Sutton

    Paul Sutton Still Looking Good Top Contributor

    The Kedo adjusters are still showing up on Ebay UK and USA. They are still just marketed for XT500, TT500 and SR500. The name Kedo is not always used in the description. If you searched "Kedo Valve Adjuster Ball" they will come up.
     
    Jim, YamadudeXS650C and TwoManyXS1Bs like this.
  10. MaxPete

    MaxPete Lucille, Betty, Demi & Gretel: I ask, THEY decide. XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    How do you feel about the VW elephants feet adjusters from Aircooled Specialties?
     
    Jim likes this.
  11. MaxPete

    MaxPete Lucille, Betty, Demi & Gretel: I ask, THEY decide. XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Hmmmm....I'll have a look at them. I thought the shoulder was OK - and I tend to notice stress raisers like that.
     
    Jim likes this.
  12. CoconutPete

    CoconutPete 1979 XS650 Special

    Wow Pete. That sounds "clangy" for sure. I had a lesser version of that, but it went away with a cam chain and right side exhaust valve adjustment.

    Good luck!
     
    MaxPete and Jim like this.
  13. canuck1969

    canuck1969 XS650 Addict Top Contributor

    I have heard that sound before in the Guzzi world. Sounds a lot like a flat tappet "knock" as it rides the cam.

    No tappets here (persae) but you may also want to look at the cam contact surface of the rocker. Hardening may be starting to wear. That knock seemed a lot louder than just an adjuster but the video can be deceiving. Tell tale is having to adjust the valves more frequently.

    Still not 100% up to speed on this particular engine so I could be just puffing smoke, but that noise, I have heard before.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2018
  14. mrtwowheel

    mrtwowheel Honda Etched On Brain Top Contributor

    Probably not the main issue here but there is a problem with your order of adjustments. You adjusted the timing chain, valves, then retorqued head.

    Should have been, retorque head, adjust timing chain, then valves. Maybe revisit the chain, then valves.

    Scott
     
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  15. Jim

    Jim Beyond the edge is the unknown. Here be Dragons XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    The concerning part to me Pete, is you said it started suddenly. That doesn't really point to an adjustment problem. That usually indicates a failure of some sort.
     
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  16. MaxPete

    MaxPete Lucille, Betty, Demi & Gretel: I ask, THEY decide. XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Yup - you're correct Scott - that order would have been better. However, that isn't the central issue here.

    Dammit.
     
  17. MaxPete

    MaxPete Lucille, Betty, Demi & Gretel: I ask, THEY decide. XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    YES - that sort of points to a broken inner spring or something like that. It was fine until suddenly, it wasn't fine. My instincts are suggesting a broken component rather than a worn out one (its a fine distinction I know). Anyhow - we'll see.
     
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  18. fredintoon

    fredintoon Fred Hill, S'toon. Top Contributor

    Hi Pete,
    my late lamented father-in-law claimed he could get another 5,000 miles out of his Hillman Minx engine after it started to rattle like that,
    just by turning his hearing aid off when he drove.
    But you know you gotta pull Lucilles engine eh
     
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  19. MaxPete

    MaxPete Lucille, Betty, Demi & Gretel: I ask, THEY decide. XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Yup...sadly, yes I do.

    Dang it.
     
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