Lucille pulls another one on me....

Yes - that’s the point 5T. That noise was suddenly there and it isn’t easily ignored - except that it occasionally faded of even went away entirely. That noise is just.....odd and also the significant amount of metallic debris in the oil is very concerning.

Anyhow, I got a chance to try out my snazzy new ultrasonic cleaner from Harbour Fright - and it did a fine job on the sump plate.
 
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The primary gearing of 27:72 makes the clutch spin at 1:2.667 of crank speed. A broken basket spring, end dangling in the breeze, could make contact with something at that frequency. But, you've already checked that.

My old 256 clutch basket has 2 loose springs, but never made any noises, just the occasional clutch jutter. My low-time 447 replacement basket's springs are all tight.

The action of the cam, lobes lifting and lowering rockers, creates undulating tension on the camchain. That undulation occurs at crank speed. However, a ground-down, flattened rocker follower will put a different tension on the camchain, and sound at 1/2 crank speed. I would expect to hear that while probing the front guidebar's bolts...
 
......at 1:2.667 of crank speed. A broken basket spring, end dangling in the breeze, could make contact with something at that frequency
I think it'd be more likely that a broke spring would 'clank' at every power pulse regardless of ratio. 2 cylinders would give you a 1 to 1 'clank.' After all, it is the springs job to absorb those pulses.
 
Well, we will find pretty soon because Lucille is going to loose about 160 lb tomorrow morning.

RobinC has kindly agreed to come down from London, ON (about 180 km) to my place in Windsor to help me out.

All right! The Engine Extraction Team ( Ontario division ) is all set to GO! Good luck guys, I hope you have an easy time of it!
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Hokey dokey - I know that some of you are waiting with baited breath for the latest on that sexy, but troublesome, old bat - Lucille :yikes: - so without further adieu, here it is.

I went out to the DCW at about 5:00 AM this morning because RobinC, the XS650 Forum’s Champion Polisher was coming to help me remove Lucille’s engine and he is a fastidious guy. I simply had to bring a little law and order (ooops - no politics, sorry, my bad :whistle:) to my shop before he arrived at about 9:00AM. She was nearly ready except for the last few engine mount bolts - so after a decent clean-up, everything seemed set. Robin turned up just a bit early and after a short preliminary on the engine mounts, we hooked up his two big bars and the straps that secure them to the front and rear engine mounts, and simply lifted the engine out and onto the floor. The entire “lifting out” operation took perhaps 2-3 minutes.

After that, I rolled Lucille’s, now svelte, carcass away and we muscled the engine up onto my work bench.
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By this point, it was around 9:25 AM and Robin had been here for maybe 30 minutes (which included some coffee etc.) - so once you get things unbuttoned, it doesn’t take long. I don’t have an engine stand - and so we had simply plopped the lump up on my bench and propped it up with a 2x4 under the front case...and so, the Ontario Division of the ERG Engine Removal Team has completed the task.
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At this point, Robin (right in the above photos) suggested we ought to pull the head off and see what was what, so...we did. As many of you will know, disassembling an XS650 top end is a fairly fast process and so, in around 10 minutes, we had removed the cam cover. To my great relief, the camshaft and the four rockers all appear to be in excellent condition - as were all of the valve springs from what we could see. Sooo, what was the cause of that mysterious new engine noise?
We next removed Lucille’s head (not that kind of head and no, not that other kind of head either ;)). Upon flipping the head over, we noted that while there is a bit of carbon here and there, the piston crowns, combustion chambers and valves all look pretty good.
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In fact, everything looked pretty good, until we saw this....
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....and this....
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And so now we know the cause of the noise. It was the timing chain slapping into the bare metal of the completely nude front cam chain guide. We also know the reason for the crappy looking black oil and all of the metallic and plastic bits in it...that was the debris from the cam chain guide being rubbed and beaten up by the timing chain. There was one portion of the cam chain guide shoe still in one piece, but wasn’t actually attached to the metallic guide rail - and so it sure wasn’t doing much good just flapping around in the space between the cylinders.

Anyhow, it’s a darned good thing that the NOS guide I found online the other day was just delivered to my US mailing address about 15 minutes ago!

...more to follow....and MANY THANKS to Robin - a true friend and an excellent member of our XS650 community.

Cheers,

Pete
 
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Very good. I've pulled at least one apart that had a naked front guide but I don't recall it making that awful noise like yours. I guess it all depends on how the loose parts fall inside.

The rest so far looks good, pretty much what you normally find in there. Take this opportunity to clean all the carbon off, lap the valves, replace the valve guide seals, maybe rings and cam chain too.
 
Hows the cylinders and pistons look Pete?

...and now for the rest of the story....

The cylinders, pistons, rods and wrist pins all look OK to me. The RH cylinder still has the cross hatch marks from the original honing.

The LH cylinder is slightly more worn with a bit of cross hatching showing but there are also four distinct sets of vertical marks that are adjacent to the cylinder studs. Now, they aren’t deep at all (your fingernail won’t “pickup” on them), so perhaps a hone job will do it.
First, a photo of the right hand cylinder
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...and now the left...(and note - that score mark is very very shallow to the point where you can barely feel it).
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Both cylinders have a bit of ridge at the top - but nothing out of the ordinary there. The pistons match the cylinders - the RH piston just has some carbon and the LH piston has four sets of score marks that match the cylinder - but again, not too bad at all (IMO).
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The timing chain shows some evidence of wear <surprise> but nothing really bad - except that the crank and cam timing marks would not line up - but of course, the front guide was essentially absent, so the timing was bound to be off.

So, all in all, not bad for nearly 27,000 miles and what appears to have been a life of extremely poor maintenance - except for the failed timing chain guide. As I have said, Lucille is a tough old hag.

My plan is to take all of the major components to London on Wednesday to the same M/C shop that Robin uses, to get the verdict about the cylinders and pistons and drop off the head for a valve job and a good cleaning. If it turns out that the cylinder and pistons are not usable, I have an alternate source for parts which will get me going in short order. As noted earlier, all of the other relevant parts are on order and some have shown up already - so I’m hopeful that I’ll be up and running again within 7-10 days.

Normally, I’d do a lot of this work on the head etc. myself but work (my day job) has gotten really busy and I need this engine assembled chop-chop so that I can get the bike back together and put some miles on before the VYR journey in late September.

I’ll keep everyone posted as things progress and once again, thanks so much for all the advice and support.

Pete
 
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At 27K, I'd do a cam chain. I usually do with anywhere near 20K. I'm sure your cylinders will be serviceable, maybe just needing a bore at the most. But we now have that cheap piston source so it's not such an expensive deal anymore.
 
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