I'd be relieved, too....
-
Enjoy XS650.com? Consider making a donation to help support the site.
XS650.com receives a small share of sales from some links on this page, but direct donations have a much greater impact on keeping this site going.
Lucille pulls another one on me....
- Thread starter MaxPete
- Start date
-
- Tags
- engine noise
Don't forget to give 'em the guide seals.
Ohhhh yes - it’ll cost a bit but I’ll give them everything.
...and yes, definitely doing the timing chain.
I don’t believe in false economy on these things.
Cheers,
Pete
...and yes, definitely doing the timing chain.
I don’t believe in false economy on these things.
Cheers,
Pete
Well I just came in from that oven I euphemistically call a garage and look at all the action I missed! You guys are fast! Awesome job guys, I look forward to watching the progress. And I am so happy you wore the official EEG team uniform! Haha!
Well done!
Well done!
Having the unknown problem reveal itself clears the mind for more productive thinking.
Amen lakeview!
It sure does Lakeview - and I’ll be stopping in on you soon.
Cheers,
P
Cheers,
P
Last edited:
Nice work guys in finding the problem!
An interesting pattern. That, and the silvery appearance of those vertical marks (melted aluminum), makes me think that cylinder may have experienced overheating, imminent seisure. Hot spots at the studs due to longer heat path to the cooling fins. Could look for matching melt/score lines on the piston.
Is the delaminated front guide an OEM, or aftermarket?
Yup - after we got the head off, I thought about why those marks would be adjacent to the four studs and concluded that it must be due to different heat transfer rates along those vertical paths and so I agree on the possible overheating in the past. Again, the marks are very minor - your fingernail won't even pick up on them so maybe they can be removed with a hone. The piston....hard to say - it doesn't look bad but I'm going to ask Terry at the machine shop what he thinks.
As far as I can see, the engine has never been apart before - the top-end Dowty sealing washers under the outer four head nuts were in really good shape and there is no gasket goo smeared around anywhere.
On the guide - well, that is an interesting question. The failed guide has a channel-shaped cross-section while the one I just bought (which was billed as an authentic NOS part) is flat and has the black slipper material bonded to it. I should have shot a photo before coming into the office. If my assumption that the engine has never been apart is correct - then the failed guide must be an OEM part and yet, it is different from the supposedly OEM part that I bought on-line.
Would anyone have a photo of an authentic part?
The new one seems secure and well-made but if it isn't an OEM part, I'd like to know because the eBay seller mis-represented it.
Pete
I would agree with you Pete, that you're the first one in there.
While we didn't pull the guide to see the bolt hole casting angles I would say this is the original guide.
Your pic showing the cross hatched machining on the sides of the guide that was on the originals.
Couple of pics from some guide comparisons I did earlier this year.
While we didn't pull the guide to see the bolt hole casting angles I would say this is the original guide.
Your pic showing the cross hatched machining on the sides of the guide that was on the originals.
Couple of pics from some guide comparisons I did earlier this year.
Cross-hatching also evident on what seems to be an original, pulled from my '78 engine a couple months ago.
I’ve noticed that the original front guides I’ve seen all seem to have a smooth machined appearance, while the replacements all look like rough castings. Correct?
wow how the hell did I miss all this ?....
fantastic job guys....... and Robin you deserve a special mention and T shirt at the least....outstanding
Can't get over how friendly,helpful and polite you guys are and how you all go out of your way to help anybody. Wish sometimes I was over that side of the pond.
Listening to your video of Lucille I reckon i know what the noise is on Hooligan now .(Thats what I've decided to name mine as it is a complete hooligan whenever it takes off.)
Well done lads
fantastic job guys....... and Robin you deserve a special mention and T shirt at the least....outstanding
Can't get over how friendly,helpful and polite you guys are and how you all go out of your way to help anybody. Wish sometimes I was over that side of the pond.
Listening to your video of Lucille I reckon i know what the noise is on Hooligan now .(Thats what I've decided to name mine as it is a complete hooligan whenever it takes off.)
Well done lads
Thanks Peanut, Robin and Dude. PEANUT - c'mon over (just don't plan to stay for our winter...they aren't nearly as much fun and people do get a little crankier during that season)
On that noise - yup, it makes perfect sense now that it was the timing chain guide. I have to say - there were two key and quite distinct moments of relief there:
It seems, apart from the finish on the metallic component, that the major difference between the old guides and the one I have recently bought is that the original guides from the 1970s have a channel for the plastic component while the "new NOS" one that I bought is flat - no channel. The plastic strip is simply bonded to the flat surface of the metallic part.
Maybe it doesn't make a difference....
ROBIN: could you possibly take a photo of the cross-section of the guides in your above photos? I'd just like to know if the channel was just in the OEM parts.
Thanks,
Pete
On that noise - yup, it makes perfect sense now that it was the timing chain guide. I have to say - there were two key and quite distinct moments of relief there:
- when we found SOMETHING that was definitely wrong with the engine.
- when we found that it was the guide that had failed (not too expensive and easy to fix);
It seems, apart from the finish on the metallic component, that the major difference between the old guides and the one I have recently bought is that the original guides from the 1970s have a channel for the plastic component while the "new NOS" one that I bought is flat - no channel. The plastic strip is simply bonded to the flat surface of the metallic part.
Maybe it doesn't make a difference....
ROBIN: could you possibly take a photo of the cross-section of the guides in your above photos? I'd just like to know if the channel was just in the OEM parts.
Thanks,
Pete
Last edited:
Sure thing Pete. Will do when I get home this afternoon.
Although IIRC, they all have a channel, will confirm
Although IIRC, they all have a channel, will confirm
Just a curiosity thing, but your left cylinder sleeve is marked with a "001", which would be the smallest OEM bore size I've seen on here (75.001mm). Maybe the piston/bore fit was a bit tight at manufacture. The piston size marked atop the piston would allow you to calculate the original clearance. OEM spec was 0.050-0.055mm.
Pete, that may be the older -00 front guide, usable only on XS1s, with a type "A" tensioner system. If so, I'd like to buy it from you. Some comparison/reference pics in these:
http://www.xs650.com/threads/anybod...guide-is-made-from-gona-maybe-make-one.38344/
http://www.xs650.com/media/albums/front-guide-slipper.1640/
Robinc's front guide experience (starts at post #693)
http://www.xs650.com/threads/on-the-road-again-at-40-the-bike-that-is.49360/page-35#post-543261
Last edited:
Piston clearance snippet.
OK - this may work out OK afterall - I will shoot some photos when I get home (an hour or so).
P