Mailman’s XS2 a full on restoration

[gggGary]

There's been quite the debate and no hard answers about blue locktite and gasoline. I've done it.
a small amount of JB weld??
Then there's these ole tool collector Bob...

Afaik there is only ONE type of shaft seal used for all years.
Ah the early years there are a few gotcha parts for these carbs yet.
I have had success epoxying brass nipples into petcocks that have lasted for years so far.
Think I've also just cleaned, polished and tapped those nipples back into the carb bodies with no problems.
I just knew you couldn't stay out of the garage for a long weekend.

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

Bob, not sure if you've seen these before, but they'll give you ideas, maybe a headache, or lull you to sleep...

The throttle shaft caps:

http://www.xs650.com/threads/1971-carbs-throttle-shaft-caps-staked-on-how-to-remove.33692/

The throttle shaft butterfly screws. They don't need a lot of torque, but blue loctite and/or staking will keep it together. I found an official okey-dokey on a Loctite bulletin about using blue Loctite in a fuel environment. Worse case could go to a slightly larger #5-44 screw, discussed here.

http://www.xs650.com/threads/where-do-i-find-anew-one-of-these-help.43495/

http://www.xs650.com/threads/carb-tips-and-tricks-1st-throttle-shaft-butterfly-screw-removal.46423/

Edit: If you use the original M3x0.5 thread, preselect screws that have the largest thread OD.

Your throttle shaft seal looks like my XS1B's steel-shelled seal. Odd, the XS2 parts manual for your carbs shows 4x of the regular seals. Here's my experience:

http://www.xs650.com/threads/bs-ser...done-em-who-needs-to.11980/page-8#post-434227

Thinkin' back on that seal experience, I think it may have been better to just leave the steel shell in there, scrape/clean it out real good, then plop a normal seal in there. Assuming that it would fully seat in the old shell...

 

[Jim]

1. How can I resolve the issue with the weak threads on my butterfly shafts?

I've never done this on a throttle shaft, but I don't see why it wouldn't apply. In the past I've had messed up threads on parts too small to oversize. I've had pretty good luck heating it with a propane torch and flowing some silver solder in there... then re-tapping the threads.

 

[Mailman]

There's been quite the debate and no hard answers about blue locktite and gasoline. I've done it.
a small amount of JB weld??
Then there's these ole tool collector Bob...

Afaik there is only ONE type of shaft seal used for all years.
Ah the early years there are a few gotcha parts for these carbs yet.
I have had success epoxying brass nipples into petcocks that have lasted for years so far.
Think I've also just cleaned, polished and tapped those nipples back into the carb bodies with no problems.
I just knew you couldn't stay out of the garage for a long weekend.

Haha! you’re right. I can’t seem to stay away. Yeah I’m really beginning to understand just how much is different on the early bikes. I don’t know why I let Gary talk me into buying this bike! Haha,

That tool is really cool, but yikes! It’s pricey! So were these nipples just a press fit originally?
I might look into some epoxy.

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

Some discussions on the fuel fitting:

http://www.xs650.com/threads/carb-leaking-gas.27040/

 

[Mailman]

Bob, not sure if you've seen these before, but they'll give you ideas, maybe a headache, or lull you to sleep...

The throttle shaft caps:

http://www.xs650.com/threads/1971-carbs-throttle-shaft-caps-staked-on-how-to-remove.33692/

The throttle shaft butterfly screws. They don't need a lot of torque, but blue loctite and/or staking will keep it together. I found an official okey-dokey on a Loctite bulletin about using blue Loctite in a fuel environment. Worse case could go to a slightly larger #5-44 screw, discussed here.

http://www.xs650.com/threads/where-do-i-find-anew-one-of-these-help.43495/

http://www.xs650.com/threads/carb-tips-and-tricks-1st-throttle-shaft-butterfly-screw-removal.46423/

Edit: If you use the original M3x0.5 thread, preselect screws that have the largest thread OD.

Your throttle shaft seal looks like my XS1B's steel-shelled seal. Odd, the XS2 parts manual for your carbs shows 4x of the regular seals. Here's my experience:

http://www.xs650.com/threads/bs-ser...done-em-who-needs-to.11980/page-8#post-434227

Thinkin' back on that seal experience, I think it may have been better to just leave the steel shell in there, scrape/clean it out real good, then plop a normal seal in there. Assuming that it would fully seat in the old shell...

Thanks 2M! I’ll go through all of those. I think I’ve seen one or two ( I’ve been reading till my eyes are bleeding lately! )

Regarding the seals;
You know my bike even though it’s an XS2, it was built in November of 1971. I’ve often wondered if there wouldn’t be some bleed over of earlier parts. There were so many changes taking place back then. And I also know that sometimes manufacturers back then played a little fast and loose with parts on the shelf.

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

...I’ve often wondered if there wouldn’t be some bleed over of earlier parts. There were so many changes taking place back then. And I also know that sometimes manufacturers back then played a little fast and loose with parts on the shelf.

Same suspicions here. Including some fast/loose tricks pulled off by shops, mechanics, PO's. Gotta keep them eyeballs well greased...

 

[5twins]

I'm sure some of that "using up old parts" practice went on when there were model changes. Your '77 experienced some of that, in particular the rear brake plate. That was the year they eliminated the electric brake wear switch on the plate, but some early '77's came through with it. In fact, I seem to recall Daniel Black has one.

I've mentioned it before but I'll do so again - you can get butterfly shaft seals cheaper from Suzuki than from either Yamaha or Mike's .....

http://www.boats.net/parts/detail/suzuki/S-13651-51010.html

I just used some and they are exactly the same as the originals. Also available from Suzuki for a better price are the needle jet o-rings .....

http://www.boats.net/parts/detail/suzuki/S-09280-03003.html

I've always used aftermarket 1mm x 4mm o-rings as replacements and while they've worked, it seems they're a bit larger in diameter than the originals (1.1 x 3.1). When I run out of the 4's, I will probably get something a little smaller, these maybe .....

 

[Mailman]

2M, thanks for those links. There was a lot of good info in there. I think I’ll follow your suggestion regarding those shaft seals. The easiest and least invasive procedure would be to just clean everything up real good and try to install a new seal inside that ring/bushing. If that doesn’t work I can always try a more aggressive approach later.

I also think for now, as long as they don’t leak, I will use the 90 degree plastic elbows. Again I will probably try the least aggressive approach first and just clean up the brass nipples and push them back in. If they leak , then I’ll add some sealer.

5Twins thanks for tips and links on parts, I will be ordering all of the above.

Regarding my butterfly shaft screws / shaft, I’m going to really look at them. They will still take the screws and for no more thread than is in there, I can tighten them up pretty tight. I might just locktite and stake them. We’ll see.

 

[MaxPete]

I have used Jim’s silver solder trick on tiny stuff and support that idea. Silver solder is quite a bit harder and stronger than the regular lead-tin stuff and it will take a tap and result in pretty decent threads.

The part must be very clean and you will need a micro-torch as the melting point is a fair bit hotter than an electric soldering iron tip can produce. No worries though - it’s the ideal excuse to buy another neat little tool!

I might also suggest that if you want to do this, you practice on a couple of scrap pieces with small holes drilled in them. Finally, you may need to straighten the shaft again after you heat it and flow the solder in - but again, no harm in that.

 

[weekendrider]

For the brass nipples, I've supported the inside and used a spring loaded punch to knurl the outside then tapped back in.

It was on a different brand of carbs but I found brass 90 degree fittings to replace the broken/cracked plastic. I froze them for two or three days before installing.

Another member (5-7 yrs. ago) soaked his carbs in pinesol and they ended up with a burnt/ burnished dry gray finish. I don't remember his user name but a search may turn up his post with pictures?

 

[xjwmx]

Another member (5-7 yrs. ago) soaked his carbs in pinesol and they ended up with a burnt/ burnished dry gray finish. I don't remember his user name but a search may turn up his post with pictures?

One man's disaster is another man's source of little brass pipes to use j-b weld on.
http://www.xs650.com/threads/i-think-i-ruined-my-carbs-with-pinesol.22386/

 

[MaxPete]

Yup - I also tried the Pinesol(tm) soaking routine and frankly, it didn't accomplish anything noticeable.

I filled my tank with it and left it for about a month or so - no major impact on the rust and I used it overnight on the carb parts and it didn't really do a lot. Perhaps if I had left it on the carbs longer, it might have stained them... The thing that really did the job in cleaning my carbs was...<wait for it...>... carb cleaner.

As for the fuel tank - I eventually used POR15 which did a fine job (at a cost - around $75 I think) and a fair bit of effort to keep the stuff moving until it solidified. However, knowing what I know now - I would have used my friend's tank tumbler, a bit of water and some aquarium gravel and then preserved it with some gasoline and a good shot of WD40 down the hole and sealing it with a rubber bung from a wine-making store.

Pete

 

[JRay77]

Fountain of information of this thread. Really commenting for an easier find later. I'm impressed at how knowledgable you fellas are. Everything in detail.

 

[gggGary]

Brass taper fittings, Crazy glue?

 

[Mailman]

Gary, I remember reading about you using an ultrasonic cleaner for carburetors, you used simple green didn’t you?
That was the product that I read about turning carburetors black. The problem seems to be more about exposure time than the product itself. All the popular dips contain some sort of acid, that given too much time can discolor or start to etch the surface.
I have always just sprayed them clean with Berryman B-12 Chemtool. But it doesn’t remove surface stains completely. I intend to clean all the orifice’s with carb spray and compressed air, all i was hoping to accomplish with the ultrasonic tank was to get the outside a little cleaner. I also never intended to leave them in for more than 30-40 minutes with heat and vibration.
I haven’t committed to anything just yet. I bought the PineSol because I was at the store and saw it. It was an impulse. I’m still researching......

 

[weekendrider]

Soda blasting will clean them.

 

[gggGary]

I've never really found a perfect USC solution. I even tried mineral spirits in the HF USC but it was just too scary. I have a big 4 pot heated USC now, I do tend to use Pinesol in one of the pots at about 8 to one dilution. Some dish soap in another. I blackened a LH engine cover with full strength Pinesol at near boiling in a Nesco one time. that ugly thing is prolly still kicking around here somewhere. I guess for the most part on carbs it's USC then; tooth brushes, q-tips, mineral spirits, carb spray and blue magic to get carbs looking good. Would love to get details on how oldskool does it....

 

[xjwmx]

I would have used my friend's tank tumbler

You can put a length of chain inside, and put it in the dryer. Wrap it well with quieting material...

 

[5twins]

I was just going to suggest that. They make special blasting soda but you don't need that. The regular stuff from the supermarket will work fine, used in one of these .....

That 25% off HF coupon is still good today, lol. This is, of course, a total loss system, but if you do it with the part in a big plastic tub, you'll reclaim some of the soda. But soda shatters and "wears out" rather quickly when used for blasting, so you don't get too many uses out of it. What's nice about it is that any remnants left on the part just wash right away with hot water.

For the butterfly plates, as Gary mentioned, you don't want to get too aggressive. But they will clean up and polish up nicely with a little Mothers or Blue Magic on a rag by hand .....