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Mailman’s XS2 a full on restoration

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by Mailman, Mar 1, 2018.

  1. Mailman

    Mailman Hardly a Guru Top Contributor

    I wish I could do that, but everything has to be assembled and clamped down tight , or it definitely will leak.
    Jim, Moabite, GLJ and 1 other person like this.
  2. Moabite

    Moabite XS650 Addict Top Contributor

    ...never had a setup like that on any of my bikes, i need to reread earlier part of thread again ...i never had bike that had to have sprocket on for countershaft seal to work...reread from 2865 and i slow, still not get it...
    ..and i look at internet video and none need countershaft sprocket on to run motor...is it the same with shift shaft ? I not follow at all that sprocket bolt tightness have anything to do with seal. The sprocket floats on the shaft, side to side play is normal...every countershaft article i find say this...2 different kind of yamaha motors within 10 ft of me and sprocket/nut not have anything at all to do with seal...

    ...another source of countershaft sprocet is too tight of chain...sprocket axis and swingarm axis in different spots...alot of peeeps not realize this and have too tight chain....
    If rear shocks are removed then easy to see...dirt bikes main reason leaking countershaft sprocket are too tight of chains, happens very frequently there ...chain tension vary greatly on position of swingarm...

    ...anyhow you close to testing soon?
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2019
    YamadudeXS650C and Jim like this.
  3. MaxPete

    MaxPete Lucille, Betty, Demi & Gretel: I ask, THEY decide. XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Thanks Bob. It was a good trip as these things go, but It was REALLY hot and nobody has A/C over there.

    One thing - I finally hit 200 km/hr on the autobahn. Wow - fuel economy is pretty poor at that speed though. If I had been able to keep it at that speed, I figure my range would have been around 80-90 miles - tops.

    Sort of like riding a ring-ding.
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2019
    Wulfbyte, Gator xs2, Jim and 3 others like this.
  4. Mailman

    Mailman Hardly a Guru Top Contributor

    Lets do something fun for a change. New steering head lock.

    Remember my steering head lock that got melted when I left it in the frame when I sent it to powdercoating?

    I had to drill it out and it came out in pieces ( page 84 post 1662 if you want to see all the gory details ) .

    Anyways, new locks are really expensive and I just didn’t think it was worth it, so I’ve just had an empty mount , where the steering lock is supposed to be.
    Well about 10 days ago 5Twins sent me a PM saying he had just salvaged a steering head lock from a 73 TX500, that he thought would work in my bike, and he asked me to check the number on my ignition lock to see if the key was in the right range.
    Well as luck would have it, it was, and so we exchanged a lot of messages with photographs and precise measurements, so that he could also cut me a new key ( on his new key cutting machine, he really has the coolest shop ) It turned out to be quite a bit of work getting everything right, but about a week later I had a nicely cleaned and lubed and fully operational lock and a new key to go with it. He wouldn’t take any money for it, he just wanted it to be part of my XS2 build. So let me say here and now Thank you very much, I really appreciate it, and I have already also updated my closing thank you dedication and photo to reflect this!

    So, knowing that I had a new lock coming , I set about preparing my frame to receive it. First thing to do was remove the sliding lock cover so the new lock could be installed.
    First I tapped a small flat blade screwdriver under the cover and using a crescent wrench I twisted the shank of the screwdriver to just lever the cover off, that way it did not bend the cover.
    20865CAF-4AB1-4D38-8E2F-9D85947EE9C5.jpeg 0D647D3C-564D-4239-860F-92BD39FFA7EC.jpeg 27F3507D-1B36-4074-8E71-11AD710B5F92.jpeg

    Then I used a small curved file to clean up the inside of the mount.

    Here’s what I received from 5Twins, the lock assembly from the TX500, which he had completely disassembled, cleaned, modified some of the tumblers to fit the new key, reassembled and lubed. Also a new key he cut to fit the lock. ( The black headed key is my factory key ). More on the two keys a little later.
    BA1DB24D-9ABA-45DF-A0C1-EEBF0545D80D.jpeg 18191AF9-B664-4140-BDDB-077E3EFAFB7D.jpeg

    The first thing I did a test fit of the new lock assembly.
    767D799D-BE1E-4AA3-B129-546A32EC82F5.jpeg B9693EC3-93EC-4180-9182-416A985670E7.jpeg

    Fits like it as made for it, works perfectly! So I pulled it back out and put a light coat of grease inside the mount cylinder and on the outside of the lock.

    Then I put the cover back on and put a little red locktite on the mounting screw/nail and drove it in with a punch and hammer.

    Everything works and looks great!
    E3EAEF3E-11CC-4611-821B-1970B0598581.jpeg FBF3F3EC-C586-407B-A504-0452CCF57203.jpeg

    Now a word on the keys. I can’t quite figure this out. My factory key works in my ignition and my newly re keyed steering lock beautifully! The key that 5Twins cut for me works in the steering lock but not my ignition. Now I know that new keys can sometimes be a little tricky, locks don’t like keys with square sharp edges. So I sanded the edges a little and hit the key with the wire wheel and it feels smoother and even works nicer in the steering lock, but it still won’t turn my ignition. I have looked at them side by side, the cuts are in precisely the right place, they measure out exactly the same, but no go. Locks can be finicky.

    But having said that, both of my factory keys work perfectly with the new lock and I’m super happy to have that little job tied up. Thanks again to 5Twins for his very generous gesture and his time.
  5. 5twins

    5twins XS650 Guru Top Contributor

    Hmmmm, that's odd that your factory keys work both locks but the one I made only works the fork lock. Maybe the notches I cut weren't quite the right depth? I never did measure across the cuts to see if it was 4mm like you reported yours was. But no matter I guess, the important thing is your keys operate both locks.
    mrtwowheel, gggGary, Mailman and 2 others like this.
  6. MaxPete

    MaxPete Lucille, Betty, Demi & Gretel: I ask, THEY decide. XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    WOW - a personal key-cutting machine.. You really do have it all 2M!

    One thing about the keys not quite being interchangeable...

    If you look in the photo below (which, I must admit I do not completely understand), I see two different numbers:
    • 2018
    • 2616
    Could that be the problem?

    gggGary, Jim, Mailman and 1 other person like this.
  7. Jim

    Jim Beyond the edge is the unknown. Here be Dragons XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    5T, you gonna go into the key cutting business? If you are I'll pm you what I need. I'd just as soon pay you rather than Ace Hardware. :D
    MaxPete, MrBultaco, gggGary and 2 others like this.
  8. 5twins

    5twins XS650 Guru Top Contributor

    I wasn't planning on it Jim, it's just part of my bike hobby. When I saw on here that it can cost as much as $50 to $60 to have a locksmith make you a key from scratch, and then found I could acquire the little machine for about the same, I figured why not? With these old bikes, most of the time you're lucky to get one key, and sometimes you don't get any, lol. I've made a couple keys up from scratch now, and copied a bunch more, so the machine has pretty much paid for itself already. Besides, it's just so cool to play around with, lol.


    Pete, that 2616 and 2618 are the lock/key numbers. From them and this chart Yamaha published in one of their tech bulletins, you can determine what blank you need. Bob's key/lock and the fork lock I scrounged fell in the same range and used the same blank, a #112. We got very, very lucky, pretty amazing really .....

  9. Jim

    Jim Beyond the edge is the unknown. Here be Dragons XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    I think you should consider it. Just like I do with the rotors... it gives the folks here something that's hard to find affordably, and give you a little spending money for your habit hobby. As Bob sez.... winner winner chicken dinner. :smoke:
  10. 5twins

    5twins XS650 Guru Top Contributor

    I can't cut keys by code. The codes are not available to the general public, only to licensed locksmiths. All I can do is copy keys or make one from scratch if I have the lock I can take apart.
    MaxPete, Wulfbyte, Mailman and 3 others like this.
  11. TwoManyXS1Bs

    TwoManyXS1Bs BBQ Hunter Top Contributor

    An interesting conundrum with those keys.
    Just for fun, played with your key and tumbler pics.

    Took your side-by-side pic, zoomed, align/rotated, and clipped.

    Then cut the left master key.

    Now, do some translucent overlays of the left key over 5twins' key.
    Mailman_Keys-02.jpg Mailman_Keys-03.jpg Mailman_Keys-04.jpg

    Zooming-in on those pics, at the bottom, looks like 5twins' key may be 1 or 2mm shorter.

    Here's a side-by-side of the lock tumbler and the keys.

    The key notch looks to be perfectly aligned with the 2nd tumbler leaf.

    When a key is inserted, doesn't its tip bottom in the cylinder, which would mean that notch positions should be referenced to the key tip?

    If 5twins' key is a bit short, inserting too deep, then withdrawing it a bit in the ignition switch could be a good test...
    YamadudeXS650C, gggGary and Jim like this.
  12. Mailman

    Mailman Hardly a Guru Top Contributor

    You’re always good for some interesting experimental fun 2M! It’s funny you honed in on that side by side photo.
    Despite how that photo appears, I used a straight edge to line up the tips, prior to taking that photo. For not having the master key to work from, 5 Twins did an amazing job matching the cuts. I think it’s really close to working, and I have tried the whole slide the key in and out while jiggling it thing. No go. On little detail I didn’t mention earlier is that the factory key is made out of noticeably thinner stock than the spare key. The factory key slides into the locks effortlessly, while the spare pushes in with a little more effort.
  13. TwoManyXS1Bs

    TwoManyXS1Bs BBQ Hunter Top Contributor

    Haha, well, it was a fun experiment anyway.
    An unresolved mystery.
    Those things keep me up at night.
  14. 5twins

    5twins XS650 Guru Top Contributor

    The fact that I used an aftermarket blank may have something to do with it, and one that wasn't an actual #112 copy. The blank I used was too long and too wide to start out with. I "modded" it, lol.
  15. Team Junk

    Team Junk XS650 Guru XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    The heat chased me out of the barn yesterday at around noon. I spent the rest of the day reading Mailman's build thread. All 154 pages. So much great information here. I'm about to paint my gas tank and now I have a better idea of how to prepare it .
    I'm waiting for the postman to bring my new floats today. thanks 2M for the heads-up about the aftermarket floats. I was kind of humored about someone talking about XS650 Central and ordering from them. Must be someone young because it might seem to be old school. That's how we used to get parts. We would call people and talk to them about it.

    Mailman, It is the seal on the countershaft that keeps the oil in, not the sleeve. I had a similar problem on my race bike Replacing the seal fixed mine. And yes it was a brand new Yamaha seal that was leaking.
    TwoManyXS1Bs and Mailman like this.
  16. 5twins

    5twins XS650 Guru Top Contributor

    Well, on these bikes, it's a bit different. It's a combination of both the seal and that sleeve that keeps the oil in. Oil can leak out both between the seal and sleeve, and between the sleeve and the countershaft. The second spot mentioned is why the sprocket nut needs to be so tight, and kept tight. If it comes loose, and they often do, they leak oil like crazy.
  17. Mailman

    Mailman Hardly a Guru Top Contributor

    Follow up on drive shaft oil leak.

    Last time I posted, I had pulled everything apart in preparation for installing a new seal on the drive shaft.
    I ordered two seals from Boats.net , just so I would have a spare on hand, also the seals are inexpensive, it’s the shipping that kills you , so why not order two?

    About four days after I ordered the seals, I got an email from Boats.net saying the seals were on back order.
    I finally got them on Thursday.

    This morning I went out to install the new seal. Before I started, I spent some time polishing the spacer until it shined.
    I wanted to make sure the new seal has a really smooth, clean surface to seal against.


    Then I applied thin smear of Yamabond around the outer edge of the seal, let it dry for a minute then installed it into the case.

    Now my newly polished spacer can go in, but first I put a smear of grease on the outside of it and also I applied some grease to the lips of the seal.

    Before I slid the front sprocket on to the splined shaft, I applied a smear of Yamabond on the back side of it to seal against the spacer.

    I also smeared some Yamabond here over the end of the splines ,

    And then put the lock washer and nut on, and cranked it down tight.

    A few notes on this job. I took careful measurements of the seal and the case where it go’s in to, I discovered that the seal cannot be driven in too far, it butts right up to the bearing inside the case, and when it driven all the way in, that places the sealing ridge , on the outer edge of the seal , at exactly the right place to snap into the groove in the case.

    I have also decided that with four attempted repairs, two seals, two drive shaft spacers and umpteen hours of labor on this one job are enough. I like to do good work, and I enjoy tinkering on these bikes, but fixing the same thing over and over and over again.....I’m throwing in the towel on this job. Either this repair fixes it or it doesn’t.
    At least for now, because I just want to ride and enjoy this bike for a while! :bike:

    You know what I mean Vern?
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2019
  18. GLJ

    GLJ Never go faster than your guardian angle can fly. Top Contributor

    I think the key to this leak is the seal between the spacer and the bearing. If there is any leakage there or between the the bearing and the main shaft the splines are a conduit to the outside. The sprocket/lock washer doesn't fit tight enough on the splines to hold back oil. That's why I put Yamabond on the splines also. Just my :twocents:. Fingers crossed for you.
  19. YamadudeXS650C

    YamadudeXS650C Central New York XS650 XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    You are The Smear King, Bob ! ;)
    I'm anxiously awaiting your upcoming test drive to check this latest intervention.
    MaxPete, GLJ and Jim like this.
  20. Mailman

    Mailman Hardly a Guru Top Contributor

    Well if history is any indication, my money is on the leak still being part of the charm of this bike! :shrug:

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