mikesxs (new) stator is shorted or grounded???

oldschoolxs

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I have not been able to get my 79 xs to charge after the old stator took a shit. I bought a new one from mikes, wired it up and it will still not charge. I went through all of curly's charging system checks. I am finding a very low AC reading on the between the 3 white wires coming from the stator (#6 on curlys). This is with the motor at idle. reading should be 10.5-11 AC. I am getting like .3 on each one. This means something is grounding my stator. #7 on curlys guide checks out. Unplugged and tested from white to white and I get the .4ohms. check from white to motor ground and get infinite.

I read that the stator can only ground internally unless the wires are pinched or rubbing raw on the motor or frame. They are not. note: my battery is not fully charged, it is reading 11.7-12.0 since I have been running the bike a little trying to figure this out. Shouldn't make my stator test readings out of whack, right?

***Is there a way to double check my NEW stator from mikes before I start bitchin at them? Everything else seems to check out. reg/rec and rotor look good according to my checks.

thanks for your time. I am going on 3 weeks dealing with this shit. It is frustrating. I just finished the bike and it is begging to be ridden!!thanks in advance

Josh
 
i am sure you have but check your charging rotor again if it reads less than 5 ohms ring To ring that is the problem mine was in the 4 range and would not charge enough
also read Expanded charging system guide in the tech area there is a ton of good info there

Greg
 
You did not say if the slap test is good. You have to be sure you have a strong magnetic field from the rotor when you turn the key on. No magnetic field = no AC output.
 
slap test was good.

a weird thing about grounding the green wire from the stator, my green wire tested battery voltage and so did the red wire. both coming from my new stator. the green should have nothing, correct? in ordrr to ground it?

i should just bite the bullet and do the pma/pamco swap. i need to be riding not chasing my tail with this thing.
 
Why are you grounding the green wire ??? that should be your 12v feed to the rotor .!

are you certain Mikesxs have supplied the correct stator for your year ? I take it that your charging system is completely standard yes ?

Looking at my 79 2F which is a US import so same as yours presumably ?


The green wire feeds 12v+ to the outer stator brush which should be isolated from the stator body (earth)

The inner stator brush (nearest the centre) is connected to the black wire (earth) and should not be insulated from the stator body.

You should have 12v+ feed to the outer brush (green).
If you disconnect the black wire from the other brush and connect the inner brush (black wire) to a convenient earth point on the chassis you should then be able to measure a full charge from the alternator . yes ?
 
josh why have you started a new thread on this problem when you already have one live elsewhere ?
http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22953

It makes it very confusing and difficult for us to keep track of progress .

i see from your old thread that you have also fitted a new rectifier from Mikesxs which is not mentioned in this thread.
I would recommend that you refit the original rectifier whilst you check the new stator. At least that way you won't be trying to check the connections and function of two new items simultaneously.

I can't believe that both your rectifier and stator both packed up at the same time.?

If the rectifier from Mikesxs is a identical standard item for a 79 2F model, then one of your brush connections on the new stator must be isolated electrically from the body of the stator (earth) That is the connection that should have the original green wire (12v+) attached.

This is the fifth thread I have seen where members have had problems connecting up the stators and rectifiers/regulators from mikesxs . Its about time they got their finger out and produced a clear installation and troubleshooting guide . :banghead:
 
Sorry about starting a new thread, my bad.

I have gone back and forth with the "tech" at mikes with no help at all. He couldnt even tell me where to connect the 2 brush wires from the stator since they are not the same color as stock stator.

I am running reg/rec from mikes and the new stator. I no longer have the stock regulator or rec. My bike is not stock, modified stock with new wiring.

the green wire to ground is from curlys guide #3. when dealing with solid state reg/rec. which is what I have, yes? Or is this ONLY when dealing with stock?

I am not certain mikes sent me the right stator. I have no way to tell. It came in a box, that is all. No directions or anything telling me what it is or is not.

At this point, I just need to know how I can confirm the stator may be grounded out internally and bad. I read something about a machine shop testing one? Is there any other way? I dont "see" any wires touching or anything weird on the windings.
 
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Sorry about starting a new thread, my bad.

I have gone back and forth with the "tech" at mikes with no help at all. He couldnt even tell me where to connect the 2 brush wires from the stator since they are not the same color as stock stator.

I am running reg/rec from mikes and the new stator. I no longer have the stock regulator or rec. My bike is not stock, modified stock with new wiring.

the green wire to ground is from curlys guide #3. when dealing with solid state reg/rec. which is what I have, yes? Or is this ONLY when dealing with stock?

I am not certain mikes sent me the right stator. I have no way to tell. It came in a box, that is all. No directions or anything telling me what it is or is not.

At this point, I just need to know how I can confirm the stator may be grounded out internally and bad. I read something about a machine shop testing one? Is there any other way? I dont "see" any wires touching or anything weird on the windings.

Curly's guide is not clearly written. When he says to ground the green wire brush, he is referring only to the STOCK solid state rec/reg. With the 70 to 79 years, that green wire supplies varible battery voltage from the regulator. When you grounded that green wire you may have done damage to the rec/reg...............you are shorting out the regulator output to ground, which should have blown a fuse, if you have a fuse?

If Mikesxs sells electrical components with no instructions as to how to connect them, that's clearly unacceptable. I'm not surprised that their technical help is of no value. Those people are sales people, not technians.

xsLeo gave you the wire colour connections in the other thread you had going. According to Leo:

For the Mikesxs rec/reg:
3 yellow come from the stator output
red is the DC output going to the main fuse i.e. the battery positive
blue goes to the load side of the ignition switch
orange goes to the green wire on the stator, which is the left outer brush
green goes to the red wire on the Mikesxs stator, which should be at ground (earth)

You have been spending lots of money, and not getting a working charging system. You would have been a lot better off, if you had done what I and many others have done. I bought an automotive solid state regulator (VR-115) for about $20.00 delivered. I also fabricated a rectifier from 2 bridge rectifiers that can be bought very cheaply at electronics stores such as Radio Shack in the USA.

Buying electrical components that have no clear instructions, and your limited electrical knowledge is bound to cause problems.
 
I can see your predicament if nothing is standard on the bike.

The problem is that any installation instructions are going to assume that the regulator and stator are replacing the correct standard items on your bike so they may not be applicable.

all the stators are the same as far as I am aware.You just need
3x white wires from the windings
a yellow wire that deactivates the starter motor when the engine is running
and the brushes need 2x wires that supply the rotor usually green (12v+ )and black (earth.)

The yellow you can leave unconnected for now
3x white wires should be easy enough to connect to your loom
that leaves the 2x wires to the brushes which would normally be connected to the rectifier .

One wire needs to supply 12v to the insulated brush the other brush wire can be taken straight to the nearest earthing point on the chassis.

Look at the stator brushes and make sure one brush connector is isolated from the stator body .
That should at least get your charging system working for testing purposes.

You will just need to work out how to connect the rectifier for a permanant installation which I believe requires both the brushes to be insulated and the 2x supply wires go to the rectifier which earths the rotor and regulates the rotor voltage supply to match the battery charge and load
Pictures would help a lot

If anyone sees a mistake in this logic please do say

No , both brushes do not need to be insulated from ground(earth). The right inner brush must be grounded, and the left outer brush only must be insulated from ground.
 
yes those are the parts I am using.

can someone comment on my LOW AC readings on the 3 whites coming from stator? If my readings are low, then that means the stator is internally grounded and bad, correct???

I have had a friend who knows more about electrical than I do look at this a number of times and he is stumped as well. We ASSUME the stator should be good because it is new. now I am getting the low ac readings.

I can see your predicament if nothing is standard on the bike.

The problem is that any installation instructions are going to assume that the regulator and stator are replacing the correct standard items on your bike so they may not be applicable.

Is this the stator you have ?http://www.mikesxs.net/parts/img600/24-2656.jpg

and this rectifier ?http://www.mikesxs.net/parts/img600/24-2089.jpg
 
Pics of your stator with a close shot of the brushes will help. Remove the brushes and get shots of those too.
Here is a pic of what the stock brushes for the 70-79 stators. Your should look like these.
I also posted a pic of the stock 70-79 stator. In this pics the green wire is hooked under screw #3. The black wire is hooked under screw #1, the brush with the longer metal mounting strip hooks under screws #1, #2 and #4.
This brush is grounded to the stator frame by these three screws and back into the wiring harness on the black wire.
Your stator has a different colored brush wire. A red wire. Which screw does this red wire hook under?
Leo
 

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I almost forgot, yes a low battery voltage will produce low output voltage.
On the 70-79 bike's when you turn the key on power flows to the reg on the brown wire. The reg reads the voltage on the brown wire. If the voltage is low it "turns on" and sends full battery voltage out on the green wire. To the outer brush, through the rotor and out on the inner brush. The inner brush being grounded completes the circuit.
At this point the rotor, with full battery power makes the strongest magnatic feild it can. This magnetic feild is what excites the stator into making electricity.
If you have less than full battery voltage going out on the brown wire your magnetic feild won't be full strength and can't put out as much electricity.
Now what you need to do is fully charge your battery. Now with a fully charged battery test the voltage on the brown wire at the reg. Is it within .2 or .3 volts of the battery?
Now test at the outer brush. Is it still within the .2 or .3 volts of battery?
If it is then that part of the circuit is fine. If not trace the wiring back along the brown wire to find where it gets lost.
Check your grounds. with the bike turned off, meter set on a low ohm scale touch one probe to the battery negitive and one to the inner brush at the stator. What reading do you get? It should be at zero or very close to it. If more than an ohm or so, recheck all the grounds between the battery and the brush. Clean paint or powder coat off the engine mounts and where the battery cable hooks to the frame. Clean bare metal to metal contact is needed.
To test any stator you ohms test the three wires to each other and from them to the body of the stator. From what you said you have .4 ohms between the three wires and infinity to the body. That means your stator is ok.
Now with out the reg/rec plugged into the stator wires, run the bike at idle. Hook the meter to any two of the three wires from the stator.
Hook a jumper from battery positive to the brushes so full battery power is going through the brushes and rotor.
On my 75 doing this maxed out the output and I got about 20 volt AC on the white wires. I could even hear the idle speed drop as I hook the jumper up. The extra draw from powering the rotor dragged the idle speed down, not much but noticable.
Do these things and let us know just what your meter reading are.
Leo
 
No , both brushes do not need to be insulated from ground(earth). The right inner brush must be grounded, and the left outer brush only must be insulated from ground.

mmm wonder why I said that ? I seem to have contradicted myself . I normally proofread my posts after posting so that i can read them clearly. I'll have to check my post and see if I can work out what I meant.All my other posts have clearly stated that the outer brush only should be insulated. You seem to have missed all my other posts and only read that one

What is clear is that as you say, both the 12v supply and the earth should come from the rectifier so that the rotor field can be regulated . It is not sufficient for the earthing to the rotor be supplied via the stator body
 
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On the 80 up stators both brushes are isolated. They need to be because the 80 combo reg/rec controls the power flow through the rotor on the ground side not the power side as the 70-79 stators.
Leo
 
RG and Leo, THANKS
Everytime you guys go over it I understand a little(very little) more.
The pictures sure help.
 
thanks leo I think I must have been referring to the 1980+ stators from mikexs because I assumed that with a combined rectifier and regulator oldskoolxs had a late charging setup on his bike
 
From what he has said he got both a new stator and a new combo reg/rec that was designed to be a direct replacement for the 70-79 bikes.
Leo
 
I just checked mikexs site and they have recently added a very clear caveat regarding buying stators and rectifiers for non-standard wired bikes .
they have clearly been getting a lot of grief over this issue but still havn't managed to produce a clear electrical schematic or guide with their charging items.?

I cannot find a guide or schematic on their site anyway but I'm as blind as a bat:laugh:
 
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