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Miss November XS2 tribute

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by Raymondo, Jun 13, 2019.

  1. 5twins

    5twins XS650 Guru Top Contributor

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    Many use fish tank hose valves. They're little plastic things with a knob on the side so you can adjust the flow.
     
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  2. MaxPete

    MaxPete Lucille, Betty & Demi - I suggest but THEY decide. XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    This is excellent news Raymond - well done and isn't this just a confirmation of what a great resource this forum is?

    Cheers,

    Pete
     
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  3. Raymondo

    Raymondo XS650 owner, fettler, setting out on a journey XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Pete, yes, absolutely!

    Seriously, I would have given up long before this without this forum. There's technical info and advice on XS650 that has been invaluable - you can't just pop into your local Yamaha dealer - there ain't one in the Scottish Borders anyway - and ask for help on a forty year-old bike. True there's a m/c engineer in the village and I go to him to buy oil and filters and have a chat - he even did the helicoiling on the points drive - but he's not an expert on old Yamahas and I know better than to waste his time bothering him with questions when he's got a business to run.

    But most of all there's the encouragement and support from all you guys who've contributed to this thread. Thank you!
     
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  4. Raymondo

    Raymondo XS650 owner, fettler, setting out on a journey XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Just a random query. Taking a look at the headlamp area - I'm expecting new LED indicators some day soonish. The chrome mini-indicators that were on the bike were attached by hollow bolts with the wires passed through.

    The whole setup seems complicated, and on my bike it doesn't fit. There's the long hollow bolt, a threaded sleeve covering part of that, a shaped metal insert which fits into a shaped rubber grommet in the headlamp bracket, a rubber grommet in the headlamp shell, a plastic collar which fits within the insert, and then a washer and a nut inside the headlamp shell. Picture for clarity:


    PICT1989.JPG

    Rubber grommet on the h/l bracket omitted 'coz I couldn't pull it out without probably damaging it.

    I just bought these rubber grommets and plastic collars - Yamaha NOS. Put it all together and it don't fit. First problem, the hollow bolt is too thick to pass through the plastic sleeve. Second problem, even if it did, it would be too short - there wouldn't be any thread to attach the inner nut.

    I note that in CMSnl parts list the hollow bolt, part no 2418336709, is quoted as 62 mm long but the ones on my bike are shorter, about 58 mm.

    Perhaps I should but 2 x hollow bolts full length and drill the plastic collars to let them through but I wonder if anybody knows what the correct parts are?
     
  5. MaxPete

    MaxPete Lucille, Betty & Demi - I suggest but THEY decide. XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    EDIT: in what follows, the original references to M6 threads has been changed to M8.

    Hi Raymond:

    I am at the office and do not have any parts with me, but I do recall that the OEM turn signal stalks have a hollow fully-threaded stud which is <I think> an M8 and it fits very nicely through all of those various parts. As for the length of the hollow stud - I think that the OE rear ones are shorter while the longer front ones are required due to all of the extra grommets, bushings, isolators etc. etc. required to make the whole headlight thing work. The entire assembly was secured by a plain M8 nut which resides on the inside of the headlight bucket and clamps the entire assembly to the headlight "ears" which are part of the upper fork.

    The complex assembly was, I am sure, designed to prevent the entire headlight bucket/turn signal assembly from being shaken to bits by the fairly ferocious engine vibrations because....these bikes do vibrate a bit.

    YOU WROTE: "The chrome mini-indicators that were on the bike were attached by hollow bolts with the wires passed through."

    Yup - this is how the stock Yamaha signal stalks worked too - but is the thread size on your mini-LEDs an M8 or thereabouts?

    When I bought Lucille (1976 XS650C), all of the turn signals were totally roached having been ruined by an attempt by the P/O to modify them to have a running light function as well as the normal turn indicator (he also used solid copper house wiring joined with twist-on Marrette connectors...:yikes::wtf: ). After valiant attempts to salvage them, I gave up and bought four aftermarket units which look EXACTLY like the originals in every detail except that the mounting studs are all the same length. So - I simply cut the rear studs off to match the original length and all was well - appearance-wise.

    The only difficulty I had was that the end of the hole in the stud had a sharp burr on it and that burr wore through the wire insulation after a few weeks in-service and caused an electrical short which blew the bike's only fuse and put me off the road a couple of times before I figured it out.

    In short, I wonder if the problem is that you are attempting to use aftermarket signal stalks which have a larger diameter than the stock M8 size....

    Pete
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2019
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  6. Machine

    Machine Race the wind Top Contributor

    Well said MaxPete.
    Raymond in your pic that threaded rod does not look right. What is the extra collar on it ? Inside the bucket the white plastic piece goes thick part in, steel concave washer on it. Along with the lock washer & nut ( I use a Honda style self locking nut)
    Between the rubber grommet in the headlight bucket and the oval rubber shaped ear grommet goes ... Nothing !
    Even though it seems a washer or something is needed, nope. It’s rubber to rubber. I think if you have the right stalks it will go together. I “float” it all together without bending your headlight ears and tighten lightly in steps and somehow in the end the turn signals are straight and firm enough
     

    Attached Files:

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  7. 5twins

    5twins XS650 Guru Top Contributor

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    I'm pretty sure the original threaded rods with the holes through them were an M8 size. That short one with the collar on it you have is some sort of custom made bit. On the stock set-up, the threaded rod goes right into the turn signal stalk.
     
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  8. Raymondo

    Raymondo XS650 owner, fettler, setting out on a journey XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Thank you Gentlemen for those prompt and informative replies. I will go and measure the hollow bolts and see what size they are.

    Since I posted earlier, I had a go at removing the sleeves on those bolts. Up till now, I had assumed it was one piece of metal but today sprayed with trusty ole WD40, used a pair of nuts tightened against each other to turn the bolt, held the sleeve tight in mole grips, and managed to wind it off. Both of them. Strewth, they were well bonded on. I think the sleeves were part of the fitting for the chrome indicators.

    Now the hollow bolts are long enough but still too big for the plastic collars.

    Temporarily fitted the headlamp omitting the plastic collars but with large washers to secure it all and headed out to the filling station. Yup, I actually got to ride the bike again!

    And she behaved . . .
     
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  9. 5twins

    5twins XS650 Guru Top Contributor

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    I'm assuming you assembled your slide needles correctly now (thick plastic spacer on top of the e-clip). It wouldn't run very well if you didn't.

    [​IMG]
     
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  10. MaxPete

    MaxPete Lucille, Betty & Demi - I suggest but THEY decide. XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Ahhhh - M8 - yup, that may very well be correct. I shouldn't quote dimensions without having the danged parts in front of me.
     
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  11. Raymondo

    Raymondo XS650 owner, fettler, setting out on a journey XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    5t, yes, I followed the assembly you showed earlier. Thank you, that was yet another thing on the bike that had been put together wrong. I think PO must have had mechanical dyslexia. Cam chain too long, clutch put together wrong, etcetera.

    Haven't opened her up yet - it's not really my style anyway - but the response out on the main road seemed somewhere about right for a 650 on a gentle throttle.

    Pete, I'll check tomorrow. They may be 8mm bolts but they don't fit through the plastic collars. I suppose I could drill those out a bit?
     
  12. Raymondo

    Raymondo XS650 owner, fettler, setting out on a journey XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Took a look at those hollow bolts, the ones that held the chrome mini-indicators.

    Measuring things is not my strong suit, but I think they may be M10. My cheap Aldi digital calliper gives the diameter across the threads as 9.68 mm.

    For comparison, took a bolt I think to be M8 and got 7.8 mm. The hole in the plastic collars is about 8.7 mm.

    The part is listed by CMSnl at 12 Euros which seems a lot - buying two including the postage would cost me more than 30 quid!

    So I'll have a think.
     
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  13. Machine

    Machine Race the wind Top Contributor

    DAFB94C0-37C7-49BC-AD2C-7C3D3FAAEF89.jpeg
     

    Attached Files:

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  14. Raymondo

    Raymondo XS650 owner, fettler, setting out on a journey XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Cheers, Machine, gives a clear idea of what I should have.

    Odd that bikes get messed about with over four decades, innit?

    Yambits are able to supply me with the M8 hollow bolts.

    Next, try to work out why the rear light flickers while the engine is running . . .
     
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  15. Machine

    Machine Race the wind Top Contributor

    The shorter M8 stud (50mm) is a rear turn signal stud.
     
  16. MaxPete

    MaxPete Lucille, Betty & Demi - I suggest but THEY decide. XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Hi Raymond:

    ....in my view, that flickering simply has to be a loose ground (earth) or possibly power lead in the turn signal circuit (my bet is the former). I would go through the circuit and tighten everything up a little including the nuts and bolts that secure the signal itself to the frame of the bike.

    Pete
     
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  17. 5twins

    5twins XS650 Guru Top Contributor

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    Keep in mind that grounding to the rear fender is no good because it's rubber mounted. You need a separate ground wire from the tail light to the main frame. The original harness supplied one, as well as some for the rear turn signals too.
     
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  18. peanut

    peanut XS650 enthusiast & inveterate tinkerer XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

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    if you need any other bits for your carbs you have a couple of options in the UK that you may not be aware of .
    Allens Performance Ltd specialise in Mikuni carb parts http://www.allensperformance.co.uk/...0Lra7Tp7Y-cVKEGtTAVvSOs9_EP16hJNOmRA__RdMX4K8
    and there is always the Mikuni Man on ebay who sells nothing but used parts for Mikuni Carbs. he had a couple of BS38 slides the other day for £5.0 each
    His parts are always supplied in perfect condition and has been through an ultrasonic cleaner . I have sold to him and bought from him and I can thoroughly recommend him. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Yamaha-X...444946?hash=item2621f4be92:g:CssAAOSwUPpclTKM
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2019
  19. Raymondo

    Raymondo XS650 owner, fettler, setting out on a journey XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Peanut, thank you for that - wish I'd known before I bought slide from USA, might have been a bit cheaper, but never mind. Still haven't sent the incorrect slides back to Heiden - Jerry sent me an email saying he would send me additional parts to make it all work. Which confused me, and I'm still waiting. Ho hum.
     
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  20. peanut

    peanut XS650 enthusiast & inveterate tinkerer XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

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    I feel partly responsible I'm sorry to say. All of the information that I supplied in my posts was factually correct and I shouldn't have deleted it .The only error I made was that I failed to notice the extra vents in your carb image which identified your carbs as 78-79 not 76-77 as I first thought This oversight unfortunately made my info confusing. For this I apologise .My eyesight is not as it was due to years of damage by undisclosed Diabetes and as for my attention.... well at 68 its deteriorating all the time .:rolleyes:

    I have 3x sets of BS38 carbs in working order one of which is for sale and I also have a pair of BS38 slides I bought from Dogbunny last year which you would have been welcome to for free .if you need any further help with identifying parts you are welcome to pm me . I have numerous images of all the parts of both the 76-77 and 78-79 carbs . The thread that I gave a link to contained a lot of useful information provided by 2Many and 5Twins about the various differences between the carb sets and how parts can be swapped between them ...
     
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