1. Dismiss Notice
  2. Hey Facebook people... We've created a group for XS650.com members to connect. Check it out!
    Dismiss Notice

Miss November XS2 tribute

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by Raymond, Jun 13, 2019.

  1. 5twins

    5twins XS650 Guru Top Contributor

    20,023
    11,922
    813
    That's rather odd the way you place the bike so far back on the lift. Is that because those center tie down U bolts get in the way of the centerstand tang? I don't even have those installed on mine .....

    [​IMG]
     
    MaxPete and Mailman like this.
  2. fredintoon

    fredintoon Fred Hill, S'toon. Top Contributor

    Hi Jim,
    at Bristol-Siddely the rule was "reef on it until you break wind but stop before you lose bowel control."
     
    MaxPete likes this.
  3. Raymond

    Raymond XS650 rider, fettler, setting out on a journey XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Uhm, no. I push the bike forward till the front wheel is up against the bar at the front, but when I lower the centre stand and pull the bike up onto that, it moves back to that position. I wish I could have the bike further forward.

    But at least the front wheel is still engaged by the clamp.

    The U-bolts were my own addition to the lift - I like to put some ratchet tie-downs to hold the bike secure. It must be a confidence thing - I don't really think the bike would tip off the stand. But, well you know, it feels a bit ooh err! while you're raising or lowering the lift.

    5T, Jim, having seen your advice it seems it will probably be ok to just loosen one nut at a time and replace the washer? Then do the torque-down of the lot.

    I also need to check/adjust the head bearings - getting the tell-tale 'click' sometimes when I brake to a stop. Also intend to check the alternator brushes, even though this is a 'new' old engine. Also, time to explore the swing-arm bearings and probably fit the TX750 swing-arm. And check the cam-chain tension, and the valve clearances, and . . .
     
    MaxPete, Jim and GLJ like this.
  4. Jim

    Jim Beyond the edge is the unknown. Here be Dragons XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Remove the nut, clean as required, replace the washer, lube the stud and torque before you move to the next one. I'd suggest torquing to about 75% of final torque, then go around the lot with a final torque after they're all replaced.
     
  5. fredintoon

    fredintoon Fred Hill, S'toon. Top Contributor

    [QUOTE="Raymond, post: 662757, member: 30022"
    5T, Jim, having seen your advice it seems it will probably be ok to just loosen one nut at a time and replace the washer? Then do the torque-down of the lot.
    I also need to check/adjust the head bearings - getting the tell-tale 'click' sometimes when I brake to a stop. . . .[/QUOTE]

    Hi Raymond,
    IMHO those stock steel/rubber laminated washers ain't laminated the right way for the job.
    Those washers should be solid steel with a rubber ring in the bore.
    Research Dowty washers.
    The old fashioned way to adjust head races (I'd first upgrade to tapered roller head races)
    is to block up the bike to sit on it's rear tire & centre stand and adjust the head races so that
    there's zero shake, the 'bars stay put when set straight ahead but fall to the side when nudged.
     
    TwoManyXS1Bs, MaxPete and Raymond like this.
  6. 5twins

    5twins XS650 Guru Top Contributor

    20,023
    11,922
    813
    Yes, install the new washer and torque each one as you go. Going up to 75% like Jim said would probably be OK, you just don't want to end up with 4 studs really loose at the same time. Personally, I bring each one up to spec as I go.

    Funny your bike ends up so far back like that, mine doesn't. My front wheel stop is slotted and adjustable though. I was able to place it far enough ahead so the bike ends up where I want it after deploying the centerstand. I don't see your front wheel stop in any of your pics, maybe it differes from mine. Mine mounts right at the front edge of the table. I also modded it slightly by cutting the sharp square corners off it. Got tired of tearing holes in pant legs, lol .....

    [​IMG]
     
    MaxPete and Raymond like this.
  7. Raymond

    Raymond XS650 rider, fettler, setting out on a journey XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Detail of the wheel stop:


    PICT2424.JPG
     
  8. Raymond

    Raymond XS650 rider, fettler, setting out on a journey XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    We're playing spot the difference:


    PICT2428.JPG


    No prizes for spotting that one swing arm is silver and the other is rust/black.

    I already knew bracket for torque arm is different, underneath and forward on the TX750 arm. I can take this to my favourite welder in Galashiels who I am sure will be able to cut off and reposition the bracket.

    The TX750 arm is also much more substantial - tube on the XS650 item is Ø33.5 mm while the TX750 is Ø38 mm. Quite a difference!

    Unfortunately, the mounting for the chainguard is also different. The 650 arm has a threaded hole/captive nut on the flat area, where the 750 has what looks like a cable securing clip. And a threaded bracket in the wrong place for my chainguard. I suppose I could ask the welder to put a threaded post in the correct position . . .

    The good news is that the pivot pin was a very snug fit in the bushes. No detectable play when I tried to wiggle the swing arm sideways. Everything seems well greased but I had to use hammer and drift to remove the pivot so it's tight.

    Will assess the state of the bushes and pivot in the 750 arm and make up me mind about whether it's worth extra hassle to swap to the beefier set up.
     
    MaxPete, Mailman and Jim like this.
  9. 5twins

    5twins XS650 Guru Top Contributor

    20,023
    11,922
    813
    Yes, the TX750 chain guard mounts differently. I simply acquire and use a 750 one. They look a bit different, sticking straight out at the rear instead of curving down over the sprocket, but having them on both of mine, I've become used to the "new" look and it doesn't bother me .....

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The front mount consists of a pin on the chain guard that fits into a specially shaped grommet that fits in that loop on the arm. Unfortunately, this grommet is NLA .....

    [​IMG]

    But that's no big deal. You can simply fit a short length of fuel line on the pin to take the place of the grommet.

    When used on a Special, there's another minor issue with the 750 guard though. The cut-out for shock clearance was positioned for use on a Standard type model with more upright shocks. The more laid down shocks on the Special model will hit the front of the cut-out so some minor re-shaping is required .....

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    MaxPete, Mailman and Raymond like this.
  10. Machine

    Machine Race the wind Top Contributor

    Yikes, for sure, nothing looks as good as chrome.
    20200710_071804.jpg
     
    MaxPete, GLJ and Raymond like this.
  11. Raymond

    Raymond XS650 rider, fettler, setting out on a journey XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Hmm. With YSS shock fitted, I had clearance problems with that cut out. So some re-shaping was required. The chainguard I have isn't lovely, certainly not like Machine's chrome one, but I think I can re-use it if I ask the welder to fit maybe a short length of threaded rod in appropriate place on the swing arm. Then I can shove the bracket over that and secure with a nut. And just cut off the 750 chainguard fitting.

    Don't have the full 'workshop' facilities some folks seem to have in their basement or garage but there's a guy in Duns who does aqua blasting, plus other materials, so maybe ask him to remove the silver paint. Apply a some primer and brush black gloss. I used 2-part yacht gloss on a Z1 frame years ago and that turned out good.

    Been reading a few threads hereabouts on the TX750 swing arm and the consensus is that it's a useful mod. But then again, the bushes and pivot rod on the 650 item are good and snug . . .

    No great rush. Possibly won't have the XS back on the road this year.
     
    MaxPete and gggGary like this.
  12. Machine

    Machine Race the wind Top Contributor

    "Caledonia" Raymondo. Beyond the line. Do you ever ride there Raymond ?
    header_f14602f7-e536-4d70-b60c-b93fdd875a0e.jpg
     
    MaxPete, Raymond and gggGary like this.
  13. 5twins

    5twins XS650 Guru Top Contributor

    20,023
    11,922
    813
    Yes, sometime in the future, I'm sure you would find it a useful mod. I've mentioned it before, but I didn't see as big of an improvement on my Special compared to my Standard. I think maybe the more laid down Special shock triangulates better with the swingarm and frame, making for a stiffer set-up even all stock compared to the more vertical Standard shock mount.

    I'm also thinking of putting the 16" rear wheel back on. I think it looks better with the Special styling (angled side covers and seat edge). I did run it at first for a little while before swapping an 18" wheel in and was pleasantly surprised at how nice it rode. It didn't seem to adversely affect the handling much, if at all. I'd heard that the 16" rear slowed down steering and the ease of tossing the bike into corners, but it seemed just fine. I guess sometimes it's hard to beat or improve upon what the factory did.
     
    MaxPete, Mailman and Raymond like this.
  14. fredintoon

    fredintoon Fred Hill, S'toon. Top Contributor

    Hi 5twins,
    my own experience of the 16" vs 18" rear wheel handling was that 18" was a tad spryer in corners and 16" was somewhat steadier when going straight.
    I reckoned that was due to the 16" rear's fatter cross section.
     
    MaxPete, Raymond and gggGary like this.
  15. gggGary

    gggGary I'm listening, change my mind XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Most those handling differences don't show up til you're flogging them pretty hard. (so I've heard)
     
    MaxPete, lakeview and Raymond like this.
  16. GLJ

    GLJ Never go faster than your guardian angle can fly. Top Contributor

    Sometimes things other than tires or suspension make them handle funny.
    upload_2020-9-28_18-24-46.png
     
  17. Rasputin

    Rasputin XS650 Addict XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    7B2D482D-0A6F-478D-B6AF-D52687F0F4C7.jpeg Now you have the swinging arm all you need is the rest.
     
    MaxPete, Mailman, Jim and 1 other person like this.
  18. Raymond

    Raymond XS650 rider, fettler, setting out on a journey XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Hi, Machine. I know that scene very well - been there quite a few times since me Mum first took me as a child. The picture is taken about one mile west of Housesteads Roman military fort on Hadrian's Wall in Northumberland. Yours is an interesting question, because where we presently live is 'beyond the line'. Usually, Hadrian's Wall is misrepresented as a barrier to 'Keep the Scots out!' of England. But that is historical bollocks. Firstly, no Scots in those days, they arrived much later. Also no English - ditto. And most importantly, the wall was primarily a trading boundary. The most significant feature of the wall was the gates, which the Romans used to control trade into and out of the Roman Empire. Sort of precursor to the European Union nineteen hundred years ago.

    For me, the ride is down the A68 - originally a Roman road so it just goes straight over hill and dale. Then turn right on the B6318, another Roman road which runs the length of the wall to service the many garrisons that were there. It's about 66 miles each way so I go there from time to time.

    5T, Fred, GLJ, thank you for the comments on wheels. Would really love to kit Miss November out with wire spoke wheels, maybe 19" front and 18" rear. Would suit the XS2 tribute look? Would also be a lot lighter than the artillery wheels. But although I take a look at UK ebay I don't see XS wheels come up very often and usually in poor condition. I suppose the plan would be to get hold of front and rear hubs and build the wheels up with new spokes and rims.

    And then the question is, drum or disc rear? If I found a drum rear, I have no idea what would be involved swapping the hydraulic set up for brake pedal, rod, torque arm. And I don't think wire rear wheel with disc was used much - maybe one year? So that remains a vague aspiration.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2020
    TwoManyXS1Bs, MaxPete, Jim and 2 others like this.
  19. Raymond

    Raymond XS650 rider, fettler, setting out on a journey XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Rasputin, we crossed in the post! Yup, a TX750 would solve all my problems. But give me a whole new set . . .

    BTW, where is that?
     
    MaxPete, Rasputin, Jim and 1 other person like this.
  20. 5twins

    5twins XS650 Guru Top Contributor

    20,023
    11,922
    813
    There never was a rear spoke w/ disc on the 650. You'd have to adapt something from a different model or make. For your spoke wheel shopping list, add the 750 wheels. They swap right on the 650 and the rear drum has a bigger brake. Very nice wheels if you can find them .....

    [​IMG]
     
    MaxPete, Mailman, lakeview and 2 others like this.

Share This Page