More clutch separation?

79josh81

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So I recently replaced the clutch springs, steel plates, and fiber plates on my 81' Special II. The bike grabs a lot better now but I'm still having an issue with hard shifting. While I was in the right side doing the clutch, I checked to make sure that the springs were where they needed to be on the shift shaft assembly and drum and they were both there (in fact I recently replaced both springs). I also examined to make sure that the shift adjustment was set as being "equidistant" and it was. The fingers on my clutch basket weren't worn or anything so the plates aren't catching or anything.

So when I adjust the clutch, I end up with 1 of 2 scenarios no matter where I adjust the worm gear (and yes I'm slacking the lever adjustment first and then setting cable free play after adjusting the worm gear).

1st Scenario: If I set the worm gear to where the clutch plates grab correctly when I release the clutch lever, I end up having a pain in the ass time shifting through gears to the point where I'm not getting enough clutch plate separation and sometimes I can't even shift to the next gear (especially while down shifting).

2nd Scenario: If I try to correct the above clutch separation issue by adjusting the worm gear inward to have a little more clucth separation when I pull the clutch lever, the clutch ends up slipping when I release the clutch lever and get on the throttle. But now, with this setting, the bike will shift through the gears great.

The clutch is either slipping or shifting through gears is ridiculously difficult. THE PROBLEM IS...THERE IS NO IN BETWEEN ON THIS BIKE!!!! (and yes I only have 6 fibers and 5 steel plates in the clutch).

My 79' shifts great. I have no slipping and the gears shift like butter with the engine hot or cold. I use the same oil in both bikes as well. I know it's not a cluch adjustment issue. The real issue is I'm not getting enough clutch plate separation to run the clutch in the right spot where it doesn't slip. Does anyone know what could be causing that problem? The only thing I did find when I searched for issues under the right cover was that there was a little play in the clutch basket once I took the plates and springs out. If I grabbed the basket, I could wiggle it a real little bit. Nothing crazy as far as movement, but I'm not sure if there's supposed to be some play in the basket or if it should be absolutely solid and if this could potentially be the issue. ???

So if you guys have any ideas, please help me out because it really starting to frustrate me. Also, if you have no ideas on what the issue is, is there any way to modify something to give me more worm gear travel which will give me more clutch separation when I pull the clutch lever? Thanks.
 
Yeah, sounds like you're not getting enuff separation, or some of the separation is false.

Have you gone thru all my clutch threads?

Things to look at would be,
- Worm travel, or worm angle travel.
- Pressure plate travel.
- Wobbly, non-trued pressure plate, eating up precious displacement...
 
When I took my clutch apart there was a little movement in the basket. I think this is due to the cushion springs. This movement is taken up when the plates and springs are put back in place. My 81 did have the 2-part clutch rod and there was very little play between release and engaged. When I made a 1-part clutch rod I ended up with improved clutch operation i.e. more sensitivity between engage and disengage so I could actually ride the clutch whereas prior to this the clutch was basically hard on or off. Also, I found that if I set the adjusted screw by backing off 1/8 turn then clutch slip was due to the adjuster at the lever being too tight. There seems to be very little adjustment required at the perch to go from slip to no slip
 
Not all clutch cables are created equal. I was fighting with one of mine till I realized the amount of cable free play was not right. For me the temporary cure was to place two nuts between the outer cable and the left side outer case to take up the access free play.
tim
 
Yeah, sounds like you're not getting enuff separation, or some of the separation is false.

Have you gone thru all my clutch threads?

Things to look at would be,
- Worm travel, or worm angle travel.
- Pressure plate travel.
- Wobbly, non-trued pressure plate, eating up precious displacement...

Yeah I've read through the worm tidbits post. So much info it makes my head spin. lol I haven't measured anything though. All that I know from my symptoms is that I'm not getting enough plate separation, and when I do get enough plate separation, the worm gear is adjusted so far in that it doesn't allow the plates to grab each other (slipping).

As far as the pressure plate goes, I didn't notice anything weird that would suggest that the pressure plate is bent or anything.
 
When I took my clutch apart there was a little movement in the basket. I think this is due to the cushion springs. This movement is taken up when the plates and springs are put back in place. My 81 did have the 2-part clutch rod and there was very little play between release and engaged. When I made a 1-part clutch rod I ended up with improved clutch operation i.e. more sensitivity between engage and disengage so I could actually ride the clutch whereas prior to this the clutch was basically hard on or off. Also, I found that if I set the adjusted screw by backing off 1/8 turn then clutch slip was due to the adjuster at the lever being too tight. There seems to be very little adjustment required at the perch to go from slip to no slip

I also have the long push rod. The bearing in the worm and the bearing on the clutch side of the push rod are also intact. I can see if I tune it out with the lever adjustment but I'm not sure that will work.
 
Not all clutch cables are created equal. I was fighting with one of mine till I realized the amount of cable free play was not right. For me the temporary cure was to place two nuts between the outer cable and the left side outer case to take up the access free play.
tim

I'll have to take a look at that. It's possible I suppose.
 
This is the bike that I’m running the modified worm gear and foot clutch on. I just removed the foot clutch linkage and I’m going to run the bike on just the clutch hand lever to see if somehow the foot clutch linkage is hanging up the worm gear travel somehow.
 
Also, I noticed with the worm gear, that when I back the adjustment screw all the way out taking pressure completely off of the push rod, there seems to be some play where I can wobble the worm gear up/down and side to side. Almost like the plastic housing threads are worn and wider than they need to be (if that makes sense). Is there supposed to be some play in there or should the steel threads fit tight with no play into the plastic? I’m guessing that if the plastic grooves are worn out too wide, that it would reduce the amount of travel of the worm gear?
 
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You need a little play in the pushrod, not a lot but you do need a little. Most of us adjust the worm gear screw tight then back it off just a small amount, like 1/8 turn. The manuals call for backing it off like 1/4 turn but we don't go that much.
 
For some reason I have a hard time with hard shifting if I back the adjuster out an 1/8” once I feel the adjuster screw make contact with the ball bearing/push rod. It’s the same on my 79’ too. Maybe I’m backing the adjuster screw out too soon and I’m not making enough contact with the ball bearing/push rod before I back it out.

With that being said, I pulled the foot clutch linkage off. I then readjusted the clutch (engine cold) just to where I was able to shift through gears rocking the bike with the engine off. Then I adjusted the slack in the clutch lever cable as tight as I could while watching the worm gear to make sure it didn’t start to activate the worm gear. Then I took her out for a drive and she up shifted and down shifted great for the first ten minutes. Once the engine got hot, for the first time ever I made the correlation that gets talked about on her where shifting becomes more difficult with a hot engine.

So I pulled back into driveway. I then followed the advice of what I’ve seen on here with re-setting the cable slack after the engine is hot. So I did that the same way I did the first time, by feel and by watching the worm gear making sure not to activate it with too much cable tension. Then I hooked the foot clutch linkage back up because I didn’t think that was the issue. I took the bike out for another spin and it up shifted and down shifted a lot better. Still more difficult than my 79’, but definitely better than it was. No more slipping and I could find all the gears.

With all that being said, it’s not perfect, but a lot better. There definitely is not a whole lot of space for any adjustment errors on the xs650 clutch. Maybe I’ve just been spoiled with my 79’ because that thing shifts like butter. And I NEVER have an issue finding neutral on the 79’. In fact, I’ve never had any of the clutch issues mentioned on here with the 79’. I’ll just call it good with the 81’ for now and see if she holds the adjustment.

Also, I would like to get rid of the foot clutch I think. I don’t really use it that much. I’m just trying to figure out what to do with the forward control foot lever on the left side then since I’m running a tank hand shifter. I could remove the foot lever from the left side forward controls completely but I’d like to keep it there just for symmetry.
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