DanielBlack
XS650 Junkie
Bob, I set my MC aside due to the reservoir being shot. It's quite possible the rest of it is perfectly good, but I never looked deep enough to find out. Want it?
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My 60th birthday present
- Thread starter Mailman
- Start date
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- 1977 xs 650d chain and sprockets clutch pushrod seal cranckcase seal new front master cylinder pamco e-advance pamco ultimate high output ignition rebuild brake caliper rebuild brakes rebuilt carburetors replace clutch solid state rectifier stainless steel braid front brake line starter gear fix steering head bearings vr-115 regulator
Hi Daniel, thank you for the generous offer, but I think I would like to go with a new one. I didn't remember that you changed the master cylinder yourself. I thought that was on there when you bought it. Where did you get yours from? The ones I've seen have a black lever and I would have to find a matching black lever for the clutch.
If you remember any details I'd love to hear them.
If you remember any details I'd love to hear them.
Bob, I've got a 75" colour TV I need collected from Avondale Appliances in E Main St. Are you and the rack up for the job??
DanielBlack
XS650 Junkie
The front brake was the first thing I dealt with when I brought her home. Didn't even ride it first.
Mine is a 12.7mm, recommended by MMM, 650Central. It came with a black lever, but it was a quick swap with the original.
Pricier than other options popular on the forum, and a larger bore than many go with.
It definitely works well, no real complaints, but if a next time came around I'd probably go with a 12mm for a little more spring in the pull.
Mine is a 12.7mm, recommended by MMM, 650Central. It came with a black lever, but it was a quick swap with the original.
Pricier than other options popular on the forum, and a larger bore than many go with.
It definitely works well, no real complaints, but if a next time came around I'd probably go with a 12mm for a little more spring in the pull.
Thanks Daniel, I've got some planning to do. I don't want to rush this. I'd like to do a nice job.
Thanks for the info!
Thanks for the info!
You got it David! Me and my little tractor are open for business!
DanielBlack
XS650 Junkie
This is the master cylinder I have. 12.9mm. I bought it from 650Central, but Mike's it is.
https://www.mikesxs.net/yamaha-xs650-master-cylinder-brake-side.html
https://www.mikesxs.net/yamaha-xs650-master-cylinder-brake-side.html
Nice! That's what I'm talking about!
Hey Bob, A NEW one will give you piece of mind for sure, but I'd give a go at cleaning that one. My M/C housing looked a lot worse than that one after sitting for 9 years, and it cleaned up like new. Piston bore wasn't as bad, but it might just clean up fine. Get a rebuild kit for a lot less than a new M/C.
Others with more experience may well chime and and say I'm wrong and that you should buy a new one, but ya got nothing to lose to have a careful go at it.
Others with more experience may well chime and and say I'm wrong and that you should buy a new one, but ya got nothing to lose to have a careful go at it.
Here's a before and after pic Bob.
One reason for brake squeal, especially when this occurs when new pads have been installed, is a real sharp 90* angle at the leading edge of the pads, this would be the rear of the pads as they are on the bike. That sharp edge is biting into the disc, setting off a vibration. The fix for this is to file or grind a bevel on that leading edge of the brake pad, and then slightly rounding off the sharpness of that bevel where it meets the disc.
Scott
Scott
+1.
Brake squeal is actually vibration in some brake system component. To cure it you must remove or reduce all sources of vibration in the entire brake circuit but especially the wheel, disc, caliper and pad assemblies. That is what all the damping greases etc. are about and as MrTW says, bevelling the "leading" edge of the brake pad should smooth the engagement of the pad with rotor as well.
Brake squeal is actually vibration in some brake system component. To cure it you must remove or reduce all sources of vibration in the entire brake circuit but especially the wheel, disc, caliper and pad assemblies. That is what all the damping greases etc. are about and as MrTW says, bevelling the "leading" edge of the brake pad should smooth the engagement of the pad with rotor as well.
Wow Robin that's quite a difference, what's giving me pause is there are things that I think should be changed that aren't included in any rebuild kits I've seen, such as the large o-ring that encircles the reservoir and the internal snap ring.
Also trying to figure out a way to clean the inside of that bore without scratching it is a tough one. The grooves that the snap rings go in are very corroded and the edges are no longer sharp.
Maybe I'll take some more time and clean a little more before making a decision.
Thanks
I might also pull those pads out again and file a bevel on the edge to see if that helps with the squealing.
You have multiple grooves for snap rings as in plural? There should be just one groove for the single snap ring? The outside ring is just a tension fit to hold the boot in?
Ok I can see that. Not a true snap ring It was the first ring I pried out and it was so cruddy in there , I assumed it was in a groove.
I still haven't really cleaned it up to see. All the parts are in a baggie on my bench.
Give 'em a good scrub-off and see how they look Bob. You can do wonders with a few Q-tips, a toothbrush and a can of brake cleaner. Might come out OK.
One problem I found with the new aftermarket master cylinders is that the thread on the mirror mounting boss is NOT a left-harder like it is supposed to be. Thus, my nice aftermarket mirrors which were meant for a real Yamaha m/c body required a homemade LH-RH adapter which looks sort of crummy on Lucille. Overall, I'd try to preserve the original OEM master cylinder if possible.
Pete
One problem I found with the new aftermarket master cylinders is that the thread on the mirror mounting boss is NOT a left-harder like it is supposed to be. Thus, my nice aftermarket mirrors which were meant for a real Yamaha m/c body required a homemade LH-RH adapter which looks sort of crummy on Lucille. Overall, I'd try to preserve the original OEM master cylinder if possible.
Pete
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My original pads never squealed but my aftermarket replacements started to after a few hundred miles. Adding the rubber to the little stainless clips didn't help. What fixed it was adding the anti-squeal shims behind the pads, #12 and #13 shown below .....
This was Yamaha's second "fix" attempt and came on the later models. Unfortunately, you can't buy them anymore. Maybe Gary could set you up with a pair? I scrounged mine from a later caliper. But try beveling the pad edges first, that sounds like a good idea. I probably would have too had I known about it.
This was Yamaha's second "fix" attempt and came on the later models. Unfortunately, you can't buy them anymore. Maybe Gary could set you up with a pair? I scrounged mine from a later caliper. But try beveling the pad edges first, that sounds like a good idea. I probably would have too had I known about it.
Front brake overhaul
Ok, this started out as me attempting to resolve an almost painfully loud, shrill , front brake squeal. I've already taken my freshly rebuilt front brake caliper apart and applied brake grease to all the metal on metal components.
So today I pulled the caliper off again and removed the brake pads wiped all the grease off, then sprayed the pads with cleaner, let them dry and then scuffed them up with some sandpaper. I also filed a bevel onto the leading edge of the pads to try and help cut down vibration as suggested by Scott ,
( MrTwoWheel)
I then reassembled my caliper and installed it on my bike. Then I moved on to mounting up my new master cylinder, I ordered this one from MikesXs,
https://www.mikesxs.net/yamaha-xs650-1mh-master-cyl-assembly-13mm-bore.html
I had a discussion with Daniel Black about master cylinder choices and this is not the same one he has but is very similar, I chose this one because it appeared to have a slightly larger reservoir. I rather like the look and feel of the black handles with finger notches.
So master cylinder is all mounted up and it's time to install my new one piece stainless braid brake line. I ordered it and a bag of ten copper washers from Banggood about two months ago and never had time to install it.
Got the line installed and here are some detail photos of how it looks.
The only thing I'm not real crazy about is this rather un attached looking loop of brake line, the angled head of the brake line won't let it be routed through the fender mount brake line holder. It doesn't get caught or bind on anything. It just looks , to my eye anyway, un tidy.
After I got the brake line installed I filled the master cylinder with fluid and pumped the handle enough to get fluid in the cylinder and work most of the air out of it then hooked up my Mighty Vac and had it bled in no time. I Loves my Mighty Vac!
I also ordered up a new clutch handle to match my brake lever. I really like the look of them.
So , how does the new set up feel? I like it. I can't honestly say it stops any harder than my original set up, but it stops very hard and NO MORE SQUEAL!! Not even a little, hopefully it won't come back for a while. Plus it's all new and clean internally with no corrosion. Brake lever feel is a little more progressive, there is more lever movement and a more linear feel and like I said, I like the feel of the levers.
All in all I'm happy I did this work having reliable brakes adds peace of mind.
Ok, this started out as me attempting to resolve an almost painfully loud, shrill , front brake squeal. I've already taken my freshly rebuilt front brake caliper apart and applied brake grease to all the metal on metal components.
So today I pulled the caliper off again and removed the brake pads wiped all the grease off, then sprayed the pads with cleaner, let them dry and then scuffed them up with some sandpaper. I also filed a bevel onto the leading edge of the pads to try and help cut down vibration as suggested by Scott ,
( MrTwoWheel)
I then reassembled my caliper and installed it on my bike. Then I moved on to mounting up my new master cylinder, I ordered this one from MikesXs,
https://www.mikesxs.net/yamaha-xs650-1mh-master-cyl-assembly-13mm-bore.html
I had a discussion with Daniel Black about master cylinder choices and this is not the same one he has but is very similar, I chose this one because it appeared to have a slightly larger reservoir. I rather like the look and feel of the black handles with finger notches.
So master cylinder is all mounted up and it's time to install my new one piece stainless braid brake line. I ordered it and a bag of ten copper washers from Banggood about two months ago and never had time to install it.
Got the line installed and here are some detail photos of how it looks.
The only thing I'm not real crazy about is this rather un attached looking loop of brake line, the angled head of the brake line won't let it be routed through the fender mount brake line holder. It doesn't get caught or bind on anything. It just looks , to my eye anyway, un tidy.
After I got the brake line installed I filled the master cylinder with fluid and pumped the handle enough to get fluid in the cylinder and work most of the air out of it then hooked up my Mighty Vac and had it bled in no time. I Loves my Mighty Vac!
I also ordered up a new clutch handle to match my brake lever. I really like the look of them.
So , how does the new set up feel? I like it. I can't honestly say it stops any harder than my original set up, but it stops very hard and NO MORE SQUEAL!! Not even a little, hopefully it won't come back for a while. Plus it's all new and clean internally with no corrosion. Brake lever feel is a little more progressive, there is more lever movement and a more linear feel and like I said, I like the feel of the levers.
All in all I'm happy I did this work having reliable brakes adds peace of mind.
Oh one more little note, the brake light switch came with bullit connectors that were for some reason too small.
I cut these off and crimped on a pair of the right sized bullit connectors and made the connection inside my headlight bucket.
I cut these off and crimped on a pair of the right sized bullit connectors and made the connection inside my headlight bucket.
Take that hose clip/guide right off the fender, then it won't bother you every time you look at it, lol. I've run mine for years without it and it's just fine. My hose guide on the lower triple tree is more centered than yours and that may pull the hose in tighter .....
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