Also - can you get both of the clutch actuator rods out from the left side - or do you have push one out from the right?
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My 60th birthday present
- Thread starter Mailman
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- 1977 xs 650d chain and sprockets clutch pushrod seal cranckcase seal new front master cylinder pamco e-advance pamco ultimate high output ignition rebuild brake caliper rebuild brakes rebuilt carburetors replace clutch solid state rectifier stainless steel braid front brake line starter gear fix steering head bearings vr-115 regulator
Yes, I had to change out the bushing and seal. Its not hard to do, it just takes a little time. Its important to use the grease to capture the steel shavings. Go slow and the bushing will come out.
Remove the outer push rod first. Cut and pull out the old oil seal, and then use the drill bit to catch onto the bushing. You can then use a tool with a magnet to pull out the ball bearing and the inner push rod.
Its a little tricky to cut a chamfer into the aluminum around the circumference. The chamfer allows you to push in the new oil seal, without damaging the new seal. Use some Three bond 1104 on the seal as you push it in.
Its best to have 2 oil seals on hand, as the first try may damage the edge of the seal. Also it must be pushed in straight.
The long single push rod works better than the 2 short ones. I changed mine about 8 or 9 years ago and when checked about 6 weeks ago, the bushing to push rod still had no wiggle, and I have zero oil leakage. Once you do the change, it will last a long time.
Remove the outer push rod first. Cut and pull out the old oil seal, and then use the drill bit to catch onto the bushing. You can then use a tool with a magnet to pull out the ball bearing and the inner push rod.
Its a little tricky to cut a chamfer into the aluminum around the circumference. The chamfer allows you to push in the new oil seal, without damaging the new seal. Use some Three bond 1104 on the seal as you push it in.
Its best to have 2 oil seals on hand, as the first try may damage the edge of the seal. Also it must be pushed in straight.
The long single push rod works better than the 2 short ones. I changed mine about 8 or 9 years ago and when checked about 6 weeks ago, the bushing to push rod still had no wiggle, and I have zero oil leakage. Once you do the change, it will last a long time.
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Couple things RE clutch. That bushing is rather sloppy from the factory. Or at least when I checked a motor with 5K miles it's bushing was rather sloppy. The worm centers the rod so the seal stretch doesn't really matter. But the dirt from chain sling does wear out the seal. Seal replacement; just do it. Polish any rough areas off the rod. or replace if it's severely worn. Check and R&R the perch/lever pivot. They seldom get lubed and can be severely worn abetting hard clutch pull. Cable routing is huge, no sharp bends. Non stock bars often mean a revised cable route. I like the motion pro cables, but finding the right length for your handle bars is often tricky.
PS that bike sure looks good! but stock 77 paint, mmmm.................
PS that bike sure looks good! but stock 77 paint, mmmm.................
No one has mentioned the sprocket nut. If that has come loose, you'll have a major leak from the seal behind it, and it's very common for them to get loose, even with that bent tab lock washer on there. The heavy dark build-up is sort of normal and comes from chain lube fling-off. Yours looks pretty wet with motor oil too though, so you probably do have some leaks. I try to get under that cover and do a cleaning once a year. I usually find that common dark stripe from the chain fling-off but other than that it's relatively dry in there .....
That tab on the shift shaft protector above your missing bolt has been bent up. It should be bent down vertical and mounted under that bolt .....
Also of note - grease the cleaned, exposed portion of the pushrod. It's just plain steel and will rust up if you happen to get caught in the rain before the chain has a chance to fling stuff all over it again. I also grease the portion of the shift shaft that passes through the cover. Hey, it's a moving part, right?
That tab on the shift shaft protector above your missing bolt has been bent up. It should be bent down vertical and mounted under that bolt .....
Also of note - grease the cleaned, exposed portion of the pushrod. It's just plain steel and will rust up if you happen to get caught in the rain before the chain has a chance to fling stuff all over it again. I also grease the portion of the shift shaft that passes through the cover. Hey, it's a moving part, right?
If you're considering the switch to the long one piece pushrod, I must caution you against getting the knock-off from Mike's. It's soft and will get dimples worn in the ends, big dimples .....
N.O.S. originals are readily available on eBay and often can be had for even less than Mike's P.O.S. copy.
N.O.S. originals are readily available on eBay and often can be had for even less than Mike's P.O.S. copy.
good to know - thanks!
Do you happen to have a photo of a complete long rod - I'm just wondering if I could buy the correct sized metric drill-rod and make one myself. That stuff is tough as nails and will not dent.
Do you happen to have a photo of a complete long rod - I'm just wondering if I could buy the correct sized metric drill-rod and make one myself. That stuff is tough as nails and will not dent.
5twins..................the Mikesxs, steel long rod I have, does not show any wear after about 14,000 kms. I'm guessing that your rod got missed in the case hardning process at the factory, but mine received the hardning.
Shows the inconsistency of quality of parts bought from Mikesxs.
Shows the inconsistency of quality of parts bought from Mikesxs.
Yes, I suppose it's possible my long rod wasn't hardened properly but I'm sure it wasn't the first and probably won't be the last. I'll never buy another clutch pushrod from Mike's, long or short. Especially now that I know originals can be had for the same or less.
....and there's nothing sadder than a long rod that has not been properly hardened.....
<sorry - simply couldn't resist>
<sorry - simply couldn't resist>
I don't have a pic of the long rod but it looks just like the outer short one on the later models (except longer of course). It will have a stepped end and a full size end. The stepped end faces out and fits into the worm assembly. The total length is about 242mm. The diameter is just under 8mm (7.92-7.95) so 8mm rod stock would probably do the trick. The stepped portion on the outer end is 12mm long and has a diameter of 6.65mm, but you could just copy/check all of that from your existing short rod.
Yes I'm planning on switching to a long rod.
Can you help me with the correct search wording on eBay? I want to make sure I order the right part.
Also I want to be clear. The long rod replaces how many pieces exactly? My understanding is it is two rods with a ball bearing between them. Is that correct?
I will also replace the bushing and give the worm drive a good cleaning and look over and lube before re assembly.
I was going to try and change the seal without removing the front sprocket. Then after getting it running for a while, check to see what else might be drooling under that cover.
There are so many potential places for oil to leak from in there.
Can you help me with the correct search wording on eBay? I want to make sure I order the right part.
Also I want to be clear. The long rod replaces how many pieces exactly? My understanding is it is two rods with a ball bearing between them. Is that correct?
I will also replace the bushing and give the worm drive a good cleaning and look over and lube before re assembly.
I was going to try and change the seal without removing the front sprocket. Then after getting it running for a while, check to see what else might be drooling under that cover.
There are so many potential places for oil to leak from in there.
Amen to that 5T. I got lucky with the Mikesxs long rod, but there quality is so random. I always look for OEM parts these days.
Just search "XS650 Clutch Pushrod". Here's one .....
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Push-2-Rod-...1beb440&pid=100005&rk=4&rkt=6&sd=191821104597
You're looking for the 256-16357 rod. It was used up until about 1975. It is still listed on the parts diagrams even though you can't buy it any more. The newer two shorter rods have part numbers starting with "447". Yes, the long rod will replace the 3 parts you mentioned .....
Notice the little bit of surface rust on the eBay part. That should clean right up but shows you why you should keep the exposed outer end of the rod greased.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Push-2-Rod-...1beb440&pid=100005&rk=4&rkt=6&sd=191821104597
You're looking for the 256-16357 rod. It was used up until about 1975. It is still listed on the parts diagrams even though you can't buy it any more. The newer two shorter rods have part numbers starting with "447". Yes, the long rod will replace the 3 parts you mentioned .....
Notice the little bit of surface rust on the eBay part. That should clean right up but shows you why you should keep the exposed outer end of the rod greased.
No, you have to take the front sprocket off so you will have working clearance to change the bushing and seal. Gives you a good opportunity to re-install with the correct torque.
Nothing wrong with a little humour in our postings!
Also, its always good to lube your rod, especially if its not been used regularly
Thanks guys, you are a great help!
....I am sorry, but with all this talk of "long and short rods", "hardened long rods", "getting lucky" and "lubrication" and of course the importance of "safe sex" among the wrenches in Mailman's tool box....you guys are just baiting me....
As soon as I stop ROTFLMAO, I will re-join the conversation.
hahahahahahhahahahahahahahhahaha
As soon as I stop ROTFLMAO, I will re-join the conversation.
hahahahahahhahahahahahahahhahaha
Parts, Parts, parts, man I gotta stop the bleeding for a while! Just ordered a new old stock long clutch push rod ( Thank You 5-Twins for the EBay heads up! )
A new clutch push rod seal and bushing. New gaskets, oil filter , drain plug crush washers, yada yada yada.
Seriously I need to just get this thing running and let my credit card cool off a little.
A new clutch push rod seal and bushing. New gaskets, oil filter , drain plug crush washers, yada yada yada.
Seriously I need to just get this thing running and let my credit card cool off a little.
CoconutPete
1979 XS650 Special
Looks awesome!
Ok the parts are flowin in and I have a couple weekends worth or work ahead and I have some questions.
1. The clutch pushrods seal, is it true I'm should put gasket sealer around the outside of the seal prior to installation? Won't that make it hard to ever change again?
2. I have a new gasket for the left side case cover, should I apply gasket sealer just to the cover itself?
3. I also have a new gasket for the starter gear cover ( right under the drive sprocket) does that get gasket sealer also?
4. And do you know the torque values for the small bolts that hold the starter gear cover in place.
Thanks, Bob
1. The clutch pushrods seal, is it true I'm should put gasket sealer around the outside of the seal prior to installation? Won't that make it hard to ever change again?
2. I have a new gasket for the left side case cover, should I apply gasket sealer just to the cover itself?
3. I also have a new gasket for the starter gear cover ( right under the drive sprocket) does that get gasket sealer also?
4. And do you know the torque values for the small bolts that hold the starter gear cover in place.
Thanks, Bob
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