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My Forward controls FAIL

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by hotrdd, Aug 27, 2011.

  1. hotrdd

    hotrdd XS650 Junkie

    SO I am trying to finish up the bike and am finding all this missing stuff need the end. I tried to use a set of forward controls that I had laying around and still like the look of them but the problem is that I can't come up with a good idea to get the mechanical brake side working. I need to work around the exhaust I have and the small leverage off the existing front control. Does anyone have some ideas I can try?
     

    Attached Files:

  2. cros36

    cros36 thread killer

    whats wrong with the set up in the pictures?
     
  3. gggGary

    gggGary Stop that! XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Those look like REALLY short arms was this control intended for a disk? Pushing a rod is seldom a good idea...........
     
  4. 9c1cap

    9c1cap XS650 Addict

    Agreed with gggary. Even w/ stainless rod, any flex equals loss in braking power. Option would be to reinforce the rod with tube slipped over and welded near the threads, BUT I would add a tab (probably a bit longer) on the TOP of the brake lever so it is a pull/pull setup instead of push/pull. Then there will be no possibility of flex in your linkage. Those controls were meant for a M/C.

    Craig
     
  5. hotrdd

    hotrdd XS650 Junkie

    The biggest problem is that the black piece of bar at the rear is about 4" long to clear the exhaust and when I apply brake pressure it tends to twist sideways instead of rotating the bar. I've considered turning this into a pull operation instead as well. I'll have to investigate that more.
     
  6. hotrdd

    hotrdd XS650 Junkie

    If I switch it to a pull type setup has anyone tried this using a cable or chain or something similar instead?
     
  7. 9c1cap

    9c1cap XS650 Addict

    Hmmm...appears to be a homemade job, no? So I assume it is not splined. Your flex is either in the extension itself or where it clamps to the rocker. Either way that piece is best left for scrap. I have an idea that requires another rocker for parts and some trust in your welding skill, but it will only give you an extra 2.75" out from the end of the splined shaft. Let me know if that is enough to clear your exhaust and I could explain further.
     
  8. hotrdd

    hotrdd XS650 Junkie

    Looks like 2 1/2" to 2 5/8" would just clear the exhaust. What you see there is a piece of pipe that was welded to the original fitting that slides onto the spline. What are you thinking?
     
  9. sgallaty

    sgallaty Antihero

    looks to me like you could flip both the control arms 180 so that you were pulling the rear lever.

    Also, you may want a longer arm on the rear lever. your rod has very little leverage or opportunity to rotate there, and as it rotates forward, your mechanical effort becomes less and less effective. You only have about 30 degrees of rotation before your 'effort' is a tangent to the rotation of the work.

    Am I making any sense to you? Your setup is not mechanically sound.
     
  10. Agreed... the rear rotational arm is way short and would get minimal leverage perhaps take a look at some of the brake set ups for sale in the *shop* section and either fabricating one similar OR buying an existing part made for the intended purpose..
     
  11. sgallaty

    sgallaty Antihero

    Well, here's the problem as I see it.

    The arms both being short means that force is being transferred from one arm to another with very little motion but a lot of effort. That low-leverage situation is compounded by the incorrected linkage being used. That linkage is intended for expansion force, not compression force.

    You've almost got something that would work, but you're going to have to switch it up a little.

    Extend both of your 'arms' by a couple inches and start them at about 45 degrees back from top dead center. they'll reasonably rotate from -45 to 45 and be pretty much linear in that motion.

    That gives you 90 degrees of action to actuate brakes with. You can make that work.
     
  12. hotrdd

    hotrdd XS650 Junkie

    Sounds like everyone agrees that I need to start by changing this over to a pull setup and then adjust the arm length and angle accordingly. Thanks guys as soon as I get back into the shop I'll start playing around with a new setup. I’d much rather fix the problem now then find out it’s a problem riding down the road.

    What are your thoughts on using a cable for the pull? That would allow me to get right over top of the pivot point. Or would I get to much stretch?
     
  13. ReycleBill

    ReycleBill Part Time Tyrannicide XS650.com Supporter

    Always pull. And if your cable is heavy enough then it should be okay.

    Finally, as others have said, length of levers.
     
  14. blackbetty

    blackbetty XS650 Junkie

    786
    2
    18
  15. hotrdd

    hotrdd XS650 Junkie

    Yah I either need to get it out 2.5"+ or I need to find a way to go around the cover and move the controls in closer.
     
  16. hotrdd

    hotrdd XS650 Junkie

    9c1cap - what idea did you have for this setup? you 2.75" will clear the exhaust.
     
  17. hotrdd

    hotrdd XS650 Junkie

    So I went out to the garage last night to visit with my bike and spent a lot of time starring at the forward controls and the rear brake setup in general. I’m not really keen on changing the exhaust as it works very well as it is. I also don’t want to lower the exhaust below the bike from. BUT when I look at where the rear brake arm is in relation to the exhaust and the side cover I don’t have many options. The splined fitting either needs to come out 2.5â€+ to clear the exhaust in a “push†brake setup or it needs to somehow clear the right side cover and head back to the front for a pull setup.

    I’ve been searching the form and looking at hundreds of pictures and it looks like most guys went with a push rear brake setup. I wasn’t able to find anyone with a pull setup that gets around the right cover. Thoughts?
     
  18. sgallaty

    sgallaty Antihero

    sure you could do a push setup, but not with that rod. you need something that will not compress or flex. At that distance, you're not going to find a lot of materials that will cooperate that well.

    Another option - salvage some 10-speed gear hubs and make a pair of gears linked with some chain. weld the chain on to the gears. Let me know if I need to mock this up for you.

    With chain and gears you have direct rotational transfer, so no need for long arms.
     
  19. hotrdd

    hotrdd XS650 Junkie

    I'll go play in the shop tonight and see where I can find some space and make something work. I like the idea of chain's and gears and what it might look like.
     

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