My rebuild journey. (old title: Future owner - Help me identify this 650.)

Not that i disagree with Jim....... .i would deflate the tire a bit then try to straighten the rim edge using the Tyre as a buffer so there is less chance to pushing the rim in. They are pretty strong, just me being cautious
 
Not that i disagree with Jim....... .i would deflate the tire a bit then try to straighten the rim edge using the Tyre as a buffer so there is less chance to pushing the rim in. They are pretty strong, just me being cautious
There's lots of different ways to do it. My drill is to set the rim upright, resting on a 2x4 centered inside the rim (where the spoke enter). Take a 2x4 that's slightly taller than the wheel, rest it on the bent part and smack straight down on it with a bfh. You get to stand upright. Gives good control and power that way. In my experience, the tire absorbs too much of the impact.
 
There's lots of different ways to do it. My drill is to set the rim upright, resting on a 2x4 centered inside the rim (where the spoke enter). Take a 2x4 that's slightly taller than the wheel, rest it on the bent part and smack straight down on it with a bfh. You get to stand upright. Gives good control and power that way. In my experience, the tire absorbs too much of the impact.
So let me see if im understanding right. Here is a rough paintup of what i think you are trying to say. This will be using 2 2x4s. on going through the spokes and one coming down on it from top. Essentially making a T. Bang down on that with something large and hope for the best?
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Bang down on that with something large and hope for the best?

Yes and no. ;)
Yes, as you depicted.
No, don't just hope for the best... you're in charge of the hammer. Make it do what you want it to.... be the hammer.:rolleyes:
Start with light/moderate hits until you get the feel of it, then hit progressively harder. don't stay in one place. Work your way across the bend... concentrating on the center more than the ends.
When you work the edge, the wood's gonna want to slide off, just angle the wood inward so it stays.
Stop frequently and check your progress. Lay a tape across the rim at various places (including the bend) and write down some numbers. keep hitting and checking until it's straight or your arms wore out.
It'll take a while and you'll likely have to cut the 2x4 and reshape a time or two (make sure you start with a long enough piece). It's a bonus if you score some hardwood, but most knot free framing lumber will work.
Wear thick gloves.
Put sumpin' thick and cushy on the top of the rim so you don't make things worse if you miss with the hammer.:yikes:
Get a BFH. We ain't talkin a puny ball peen here.... you want a 3 to 5lb big boy.

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This is how i would do it. 1 piece of timber...........shape the end as shown in the 2 diagrams........

I would leave the tyre on. Deflate it completely. The main reason is because of your inexperience. If you miss with the hammer you wont damage the rim.........

With the timber in place have one foot on the 4x2 about half way across the wheel, the foot should be just past the axle hole on the side closet to wher the end of the timber hits the rim .................when you hit the end with the hammer, it will want to bounce off the rim...........so the downward pressure in the center will keep the pressure even.

The step in the end that has the round, helps to lower the end that is designed to hit the rim this will help to stop it from wanting to bounce over the top of the lip when you hit the end with the hammer. and the directional force is forward and slightly down. ........

As per Jim, i would work the curve. hit in the center then to one side in smaller arcs, then to the other side. repeat. ..............take 3 or 4 times to work the curve out........being inexperienced start will smaller hits until you get confident, and the feel of the process. if it doesn't move hit a bit header. and again till you see it working.
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Extremely well spotted by Mr 650Skull .. hats Off Impressing

Now If this was me I would try to talk to the seller Perhaps he did not know about it either and are willing to replace

I have no experience of Motorcycle wired wheels but I have worked on Bicycle wheels
On those there is a good chance that the tension in the spokes near the damage has a decreased tension
Rendering the wheel oval also --- aligning bicycle wheels one needs to check axial as well as Radial Runout.
And keeping attention on how much one tightens. Not to much or to little
I have taken off all spokes and the rim was at times neither round nor plane.
After straightening the rim Bending against a tree trunk pushing various directions and reinstalling all spokes all well .Time Consuming work.

If you gentlemen says a 2x4 and Hammer is working i Believe you --- but the tire and spokes would spring a bit.
But yes most likely it will do it
Thinking out Loud assuming it is the same damage on both sides of the rim ? Taking the tire off and use a Bench Vice
Perhaps with pipe stumps or pieces of wood in between with the right curvature and diameter.
Depending on the damage direction but if it were only axial deformation I believe the vice could be a way Forward.

Safety ???
I would inspect for rust on the inside. If that looks good I would most likely use it a while if possible to straighten it and later on replace it when more is known of the bike. If rim is rusty . I would reevaluate. There is still time till next season.

Personally I would consider to build the wheel myself. Since I have done it for Bicycle wheels If the spokes look good using tape or other means to keep them together ---Not mixing the order.. taking pictures Polishing it and then go for it. 2 indicator clocks and some time it is i nice job. If one has the time.
 
Extremely well spotted by Mr 650Skull .. hats Off Impressing

Now If this was me I would try to talk to the seller Perhaps he did not know about it either and are willing to replace

I have no experience of Motorcycle wired wheels but I have worked on Bicycle wheels
On those there is a good chance that the tension in the spokes near the damage has a decreased tension
Rendering the wheel oval also --- aligning bicycle wheels one needs to check axial as well as Radial Runout.
And keeping attention on how much one tightens. Not to much or to little
I have taken off all spokes and the rim was at times neither round nor plane.
After straightening the rim Bending against a tree trunk pushing various directions and reinstalling all spokes all well .Time Consuming work.

If you gentlemen says a 2x4 and Hammer is working i Believe you --- but the tire and spokes would spring a bit.
But yes most likely it will do it
Thinking out Loud assuming it is the same damage on both sides of the rim ? Taking the tire off and use a Bench Vice
Perhaps with pipe stumps or pieces of wood in between with the right curvature and diameter.
Depending on the damage direction but if it were only axial deformation I believe the vice could be a way Forward.

Safety ???
I would inspect for rust on the inside. If that looks good I would most likely use it a while if possible to straighten it and later on replace it when more is known of the bike. If rim is rusty . I would reevaluate. There is still time till next season.

Personally I would consider to build the wheel myself. Since I have done it for Bicycle wheels If the spokes look good using tape or other means to keep them together ---Not mixing the order.. taking pictures Polishing it and then go for it. 2 indicator clocks and some time it is i nice job. If one has the time.

So most the damage seems to be on one side of the wheel. So hopefully that will grant some saving grace
 
Now If this was me I would try to talk to the seller Perhaps he did not know about it either and are willing to replace

I have worked on Bicycle wheels On those there is a good chance that the tension in the spokes near the damage has a decreased tension
Rendering the wheel oval also ---
Safety ???
I would inspect for rust on the inside. If that looks good I would most likely use it a while if possible to straighten it and later on replace it when more is known of the bike. If rim is rusty . I would reevaluate. There is still time till next season.

Personally I would consider to build the wheel myself. Since I have done it for Bicycle wheels If the spokes look good using tape or other means to keep them together ---Not mixing the order.. taking pictures Polishing it and then go for it. 2 indicator clocks and some time it is i nice job. If one has the time.


If you count 4 spoke to the left of the valve stem, (Anti Clockwise) and the next 4 spokes is where the dent in the rim is in the other side..............does anyone see any damage........................

personally i wouldn't heat it, just me......... on a car there are 3 other wheels.........

If so it may be better to go back to the seller...........
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Here are some more images
Also added some more to this album: https://photos.app.goo.gl/Ur4Qv357u8tWqi2z5

I wish there was a multi photo upload feature :banghead:


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If you count 4 spoke to the right of the valve stem, (Clockwise) and the next 4 spokes is where the dent in the rim is in the other side.............i think i see some damage on this side..........think can't be sure due to the camera angle............does anyone see any damage........................

personally i wouldn't heat it, just me......... on a car there are 3 other wheels.........

If so it may be better to go back to the seller...........
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Difficult to see
In the photo album you have it on wooden blocks
And You have a chalk if you hold that against the rim edge ---chalk fixed in space in some way ..
A support for the hand or so first axially
If you fix the wheel axle and turns it ( The wheel ) till the chalk hits the edge fix the chalk and then continue turning the wheel ---if the wheel is out of plane the gap between the chalk varies whereas if it is straight no major difference in gap is there over the full turn
And perhaps measure
Possible to do the same radially if there is a dent inwards wheel center.
If you have indicator clocks then measurements can be taken with them
 
When it comes to good wheels, patience will get you where you want to be.
You can continue on with your wheel improvements. Run it until you find an exceptional wheel to upgrade to.
I've done just that, an upgrade on wheels again lately. That strategy works out.
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If the bent edge of the rim is simply flared out some, you may be able to straighten it by simply clamping it in a large vice and squeezing the flared out edge back in. I've straightened minorly bent alloy rims like this, don't see why it wouldn't work on a steel rim too.
 
Just a UK perspective to maybe help you feel better.

I thought about changing the cast wheels on my 1978 SE for wire spoked wheels. But you don't exactly see many such items on UK ebay. And if you do find an old XS wire wheel, it's usually in pretty bad shape. And usually there's no brake plate or the other bits. So I was hoping to find, probably from different sellers, a front wheel and a rear wheel with brake plate in whatever condition, and then rebuild both wheels with new spokes and rims. Plus of course fit new tyres. Add in minor changes to the swing-arm to take a drum brake torque arm and finding the pivot for the brake lever-actuation rod and I was looking at over £1000. So I decided to love what I've got . . .

I would have been over the moon to score a wheel like that with brake plate, even with the damage, for what you have paid.
 
Just a UK perspective to maybe help you feel better.

I thought about changing the cast wheels on my 1978 SE for wire spoked wheels. But you don't exactly see many such items on UK ebay. And if you do find an old XS wire wheel, it's usually in pretty bad shape. And usually there's no brake plate or the other bits. So I was hoping to find, probably from different sellers, a front wheel and a rear wheel with brake plate in whatever condition, and then rebuild both wheels with new spokes and rims. Plus of course fit new tyres. Add in minor changes to the swing-arm to take a drum brake torque arm and finding the pivot for the brake lever-actuation rod and I was looking at over £1000. So I decided to love what I've got . . .

I would have been over the moon to score a wheel like that with brake plate, even with the damage, for what you have paid.

Yeah I have been looking for a rear wheel like this for at least a month. Other than the dent, this one was by far in the best shape cosmetically. So i was pretty over the moon to find it and get it here. Hopefully I can salvage it.
 
Oh, you can salvage it! Worst case is rebuild it with new spokes and rim, or get somebody to rebuild it for you. Maybe more than you hoped to spend but probably not need to take a new mortgage. An you end up with shiny new spokes and rim.

But follow the advice the others have given and you can probably knock that flat spot out.
 
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