New energy technologies….hydrogen - finally?

Are (high) pressure vessels in use now?

Oh yes - I may be wrong, but I'd guess that virtually every FCV on the road uses pressure vessels in the 5-10,000 psi range. If they didn't they wouldn't be carrying sufficient hydrogen to achieve a usable driving range.

The thing about hydrogen is that while it is flammable, it also is the lightest molecule (it is element number 1 in the periodic table) and the H2 molecule (i.e. two hydrogen atoms combined which is how hydrogen exists in nature) is very small - so it will pass/leak through just about anything except glass or fairly heavy walled metal or some specific types of polymer. That is actually one of the toughest problems that fuel cell engineers have been working on - preventing leaks so that the vehicle can actually drive a good distance.

To be more specific, something like a thin-walled aluminium tank would likely not contain hydrogen for very long at a significant pressure and if there was a leak, the gas would simply dissipate in the atmosphere and nearly instantaneously combine with oxygen to form water molecules. If a vehicle stored in a parking garage had a hydrogen leak, the gas would be gone before enough could accumulate to cause a significant fire. the escaping gas would simply pass right through the roof or walls of the building and be gone.

That is why the whole "Hindenburg" nightmare is simply not a realistic scenario. In contrast, gasoline, diesel or any other liquid fuel or a heavier gas such as propane or natural gas - can accumulate and result in a BIG fire - and that is why hydrogen (once they get the challenges around preventing leaks solved) is actually much safer than the fuels used today. Remember - no matter what sort of powertrain a vehicle has - it must still carry enough on-board energy to propel the vehicle down the road, up the hill and around the corners. There is no free lunch.

Finally, the amount of hydrogen on-board a typical car is likely to be about 5-6 kg versus 30-60 kg of gasoline carried by most cars these days. A big gasoline or LNG spill is a BIG deal and will lead to a BIG fire (see attached video).
 
Oh yes - I may be wrong, but I'd guess that virtually every FCV on the road uses pressure vessels in the 5-10,000 psi range. If they didn't they wouldn't be carrying sufficient hydrogen to achieve a usable driving range.

The thing about hydrogen is that while it is flammable, it also is the lightest molecule (it is element number 1 in the periodic table) and the H2 molecule (i.e. two hydrogen atoms combined which is how hydrogen exists in nature) is very small - so it will pass/leak through just about anything except glass or fairly heavy walled metal or some specific types of polymer. That is actually one of the toughest problems that fuel cell engineers have been working on - preventing leaks so that the vehicle can actually drive a good distance.

To be more specific, something like a thin-walled aluminium tank would likely not contain hydrogen for very long at a significant pressure and if there was a leak, the gas would simply dissipate in the atmosphere and nearly instantaneously combine with oxygen to form water molecules. If a vehicle stored in a parking garage had a hydrogen leak, the gas would be gone before enough could accumulate to cause a significant fire. the escaping gas would simply pass right through the roof or walls of the building and be gone.

That is why the whole "Hindenburg" nightmare is simply not a realistic scenario. In contrast, gasoline, diesel or any other liquid fuel or a heavier gas such as propane or natural gas - can accumulate and result in a BIG fire - and that is why hydrogen (once they get the challenges around preventing leaks solved) is actually much safer than the fuels used today. Remember - no matter what sort of powertrain a vehicle has - it must still carry enough on-board energy to propel the vehicle down the road, up the hill and around the corners. There is no free lunch.

Finally, the amount of hydrogen on-board a typical car is likely to be about 5-6 kg versus 30-60 kg of gasoline carried by most cars these days. A big gasoline or LNG spill is a BIG deal and will lead to a BIG fire (see attached video).
Thanks for that. I was more referring to accumulators I guess. There were some test vehicles used in shuttle operations employing hydraulic accumulators. Back and forth at a landfill as an example.
 
Thanks for that. I was more referring to accumulators I guess. There were some test vehicles used in shuttle operations employing hydraulic accumulators. Back and forth at a landfill as an example.

Ahhh....accumulators really only make sense for vehicles with a repetitive accelerate-decelerate driving cycle (such as a garbage truck in a neighbourhood or a shuttle at an airport) - this allows the vehicle to recover the some of energy lost in braking and feed it back in to assist with acceleration.

For a "regular" passenger car, the weight, space and expense of an accumulator would be difficult to justify.

Pete
 
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TeamNZ_ChaseBoat3.png

https://robbreport.com/motors/marin...iling-chase-boat-for-americas-cup-1234631250/
 
It ticks off some box's for innovation, as for the details on how green, :shrug: in the short term it may not be so but that would come as development and the push for it to be used will make it economically more viable. The way the Kiwis have used new technology, (sims were used to build the ACT75) because their test and training boat wasn't in the water before they had to commit to the race boat design of the main AC boat. The race boat was a completely different design (untested on the water), of the hull to the test boat........what the Kiwi's have done and doing to the development of both the foiling Cats and mono hulls, is doing to sailing what F1 has done to the development of road car technology. They haven't won the AC against billionaires, the last 2 campaigns, (on a shoestring budget) without being innovative in using and developing technology to gain that advantage. Also have got people with great minds together based on team work and loyalty, (sure they ar well compensated relative to the average person), rather than just for the $'s. That is something the billionaires cant comprehend, to them money trumps loyalty
 
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While that boat has a hydrogen tech power plant, it is ANYTHING but green. Every bit of it is a petroleum based structure save the steel, copper, aluminum (aluminium?) bits. Composite means petroleum based mostly these days.
 
While that boat has a hydrogen tech power plant, it is ANYTHING but green. Every bit of it is a petroleum based structure save the steel, copper, aluminum (aluminium?) bits. Composite means petroleum based mostly these days.
It's a step in the right direction though. Yes, as a civilization we've got a long way to go, but a journey of 1000 miles begins with a single step.
These little AC chase boats will only number in the dozens... not near to affect green tech one way or the other, but the next iteration will come just a tad closer, and the next closer.... we'll get there.
 
While that boat has a hydrogen tech power plant, it is ANYTHING but green. Every bit of it is a petroleum based structure save the steel, copper, aluminum (aluminium?) bits. Composite means petroleum based mostly these days.

have to start somewhere........
With the foiling mono hull boats speeds up to 90kph, he chase boats have to run 4 large outboards with a combined horsepower of 1600 HP in each chase boat and there is usually 2 chase boats following the race boat, (and the training boat), at all times..........that is a lot of fossil fuel being burnt that can be saved

The Kiwis are locking this technology and mono hulls into the AM cup for the next 2 cycles. This will give the technology a chance to be developed and keep waste down by using and developing for the future instead of chopping and changing.

The flow on effect to pleasure craft and the related savings will be immense. We read about land based fuel savings but never what the costs are on the water with all the pleasure craft. out boards have improved efficiency over the last 15/20 years but they are still one of the least fuel efficient forms of transport. In fact they are more of a hobby so that makes them even less efficient/necessary.
 
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I'm going to the race!
Having the Ferraris flown in.

We are talking Monaco?

Went to watch the Monaco Grand F1 Prix in 2015 - only time I've been to that principality. After the race we wandered around, looking at the motor yachts and speedboats in the harbour. Trophy girlfriends and security dudes in suits. Playground of the rich? Well, I don't think there's any other place I've been where you could really smell the money. That place is fuelled on lucre. Never mind how many litres per hour, just fill her up.
 
From this morning's emerging tech brew emailcast.
Jlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6MTAwMCwiaGVpZ2h0IjpudWxsfX19.png


Sila Nanotechnologies

Batteries are getting a silicon makeover that could reshape the way we approach electricity and energy consumption.

On Wednesday, California startup Sila Nanotechnologies, which has raised over $880 million since its founding in 2011, unveiled a battery it claims is more powerful than existing batteries, without compromising on life cycle and safety.

So what? Batteries power much of the technology we use today. And as battery-based fuel and energy sources like solar panels, electric vehicles, and wind turbines become even more prevalent, more efficient and powerful batteries will be essential.

How it works: Sila makes its batteries from next-gen “silicon anode material,” which replaces the graphite in the lithium-ion batteries used in most technology today. That allows more lithium atoms to get packed into the battery, increasing efficiency.

Sila’s battery will make its real-world debut in Boston startup Whoop’s 4.0 fitness tracker, a Fitbit competitor that has a host of activity-tracking features, from sleep patterns to heart rates and skin-temperature sensors. Whoop has raised ~$405 million since it was founded in 2012.

  • The tiny battery will deliver 20% more power density compared with Whoop’s previous models, meaning it can be up to 33% smaller while achieving the same five-day battery life.
Big picture: Sila’s partnership with Whoop is an effort to start out small before transitioning into bigger applications like smartphones, electric vehicles, and renewable energy. Sila expects its batteries to make their way into cars by 2025, which it hopes can lower the price of electric vehicles and extend their range.—JM
 
Liquid metal batteries.... AMBRI

"The liquid metal battery is comprised of a liquid calcium alloy anode, a molten salt electrolyte and a cathode comprised of solid particles of antimony, enabling the use of low-cost materials and a low number of steps in the cell assembly process."


Calcium-Antimony-2.jpg
 
From this morning's emerging tech brew emailcast.


Sila Nanotechnologies

Batteries are getting a silicon makeover that could reshape the way we approach electricity and energy consumption.

On Wednesday, California startup Sila Nanotechnologies, which has raised over $880 million since its founding in 2011, unveiled a battery it claims is more powerful than existing batteries, without compromising on life cycle and safety.

So what? Batteries power much of the technology we use today. And as battery-based fuel and energy sources like solar panels, electric vehicles, and wind turbines become even more prevalent, more efficient and powerful batteries will be essential.

How it works: Sila makes its batteries from next-gen “silicon anode material,” which replaces the graphite in the lithium-ion batteries used in most technology today. That allows more lithium atoms to get packed into the battery, increasing efficiency.

Sila’s battery will make its real-world debut in Boston startup Whoop’s 4.0 fitness tracker, a Fitbit competitor that has a host of activity-tracking features, from sleep patterns to heart rates and skin-temperature sensors. Whoop has raised ~$405 million since it was founded in 2012.

  • The tiny battery will deliver 20% more power density compared with Whoop’s previous models, meaning it can be up to 33% smaller while achieving the same five-day battery life.
Big picture: Sila’s partnership with Whoop is an effort to start out small before transitioning into bigger applications like smartphones, electric vehicles, and renewable energy. Sila expects its batteries to make their way into cars by 2025, which it hopes can lower the price of electric vehicles and extend their range.—JM

Don't see anything about the cases being recyclable........or did i miss something?
 
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