Newbie MikeXS Keihin flatslide PWK installationquestions

ukie eagle

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Hi All:

For better or for worse, I've ordered a set of these from MikeXS.
The BS 34s on my '80 SG are shot and I haven't been able to ride yet this year so I figured I'd give these a try.
They arrive tomorrow, so I'm going to install them Saturday.
Having said that, short of printing out the many pages of discussions [on many threads] on this forum, is there some sort of "Standard Operating Procedure" from all of the Forum's experience when it comes to installing these?
My bike is stock, except for a set of MAC 2 into 2 pipes.
What is the best way to install/set these carbs up?
I'm not a perfectionist, but just would like to be able to get the bike running so that I can ride.
I'll be happy to tweak it as I go along, but for now am looking to not have to repeat all the major troubleshooting to get it going: I just want to ride!

Any tips/hints would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!
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It's no sweat, just follow the detailed instructions that come with the kit.

Oh wait... it doesn't come with any instructions. In that case call Mike's friendly 24 hour tech support line.

Hold on... my phone is ringing...
 
All kidding aside, the first suggestion I have is to throw away the cable that comes in the kit. If yours is anything like the one I got then it is a headache, bordering on dangerous. I was not able to properly sync the carb slides because there is so much slop in the cable splitter and ends. On top of that, it was so poorly machined that the throttle would stick both when pulling and letting off. You will hear guys say how critical it is to route the cable properly. This is because the OD of the cable housings are too small for the ID of the adjusters. If you move, budge or bump the cable housings it will throw off the cable sync. With a good cable, it is still best to run the cable beneath the backbone between the motor mounts, but it won't be sensitive to movement like the Mike's cable.

The first step in setting the cables is to make sure there is free-play at the throttle housing and carbs. This is done by grabbing the cable housing and moving it in and out feeling how far it will move before the cable inside moves. Start with about 1/8" movement. If using the Mike's cable, don't mistake the side-to-side movement as free-play, it needs to go in and out.

Turn the air screws in until they gently seat then turn them out 1-1/2 turns.

Hook up a mercury manometer then fire the engine. Adjust the slide stops so that the manometer reads even and the idle is about 1200 rpm. Then crack the throttle just a hair. You want the throttle open as little as possible but with the slides resting on the cables and not the slide stops. Adjust the cable adjusters at the tops of the carbs so that the manometer reads even. It's usually best to turn in the adjuster on the low cylinder so that you are not eliminating the free-play of the cable. When you have the cables adjusted, let it back down to idle and verify that the idle is still in sync and that you still have free-play at the cable ends.

Turn the air screws in and out to get the highest vacuum reading. Turn them both equally about 1/4 turn at a time, waiting several second between each adjustment for the engine to stabilize. You may need to readjust the slide stops as you do this to keep it running at the same speed.

When you find the setting that gives max vacuum, shut off the engine then turn the air screws in, counting the turns. It should be between 1 and 2 turns. If it is less than one turn, then the pilot (slow jet) is too small. If it is over two turns then the pilot is too big. Replace the pilots and repeat the steps above. If you are between 1 and 2 then set the needles back where you had them and move on.

Once you have the pilots and air screws set to get max vacuum at idle then you are done with them. Any other low speed tuning is done with the jet needles. The carbs come with JJH needles. The J and J represent the taper and length and actually seem right for this setup. The last letter is the diameter of the straight part of the needle.

The taper mostly effects the mixture around 3/4 throttle.

The length effects it from 1/4 to 3/4 throttle. When you change the clip position you are changing the length. If you run out of clip positions and need to move the needle further then you get the next length needle. Each letter represents about 2 clip positions.

The diameter effects it below 1/4 throttle. Almost all of the tuning I had to do to these carbs was changing needle diameters. A higher letter means a thicker (leaner) needle. I suggest you buy at least the JJK, JJM, JJQ needles (2 of each). That is every other needle, there is one size below, above, and between each. With these three you should be able to pinpoint the best size. If one is too rich and the next too lean then get the one between them.

The diameter is mainly for the transition off of idle. If, when you open the throttle from idle, it cuts out like you hit the kill switch then it is too lean and you need a thinner needle (lower letter). More than likely though, it is going to blubber and stumble which means too rich. In which case you need a fatter needle (higher number).

The length (clip position) effects it in the cruising range. If it surges at cruise or hesitates when you roll on it to pass then it may be too lean. If it's lean then you shorten the needle (move the clip down which raises the needle). If it's stumbling, bogging or fouling plugs then its probably too rich. If it's rich then you lengthen the needle (move the clip up which lowers the needle).

Change the main jet for best full throttle performance. When setting the main jet it helps if you can find a deserted road with a long hill so you can hold it at full throttle for an extended time. After holding it at full throttle for as long as possible, pull in the clutch, let off the throttle and hit the kill switch all at the same time. Come to a stop then pull the plugs and look at them. If it's white then it's too lean and you need larger jets. If it's black then it's too rich and you need smaller jets.
 
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Thanks mrriggs!

I appreciate you sharing your insight [no doubt obtained through hours of hard work!].

However, I will not have access to a mercury manometer at the time of the initial installation at my friends house tomorrow - do you have any suggestions on how I can get "into the ballpark" [without a manometer] so that I will be able to ride it the 20 miles back home?

Also, will my existing gas line set up work with the new carbs?...Currently the gas tank on my XS605 SG has only the one / vacuum petcock, so I assume the single gas line splits into two and then attaches to the current BS34s.

Thanks again for your help!
 
If you can't get your hands on some mercury sticks then vacuum gauges can be used. You can find inexpensive vacuum gauges at Harbor Freight and auto parts stores. The reading will be more erratic since you won't have the mass of a column of mercury to stabilize it. Putting restricters in the vacuum lines on the engine side will help. Use two identical gauges and make sure the vacuum lines are the same length.

Even with two identical gauges they probably won't read the same. The first step is to T them off of a single vacuum source and see how far off they are from one another. Make a note of that and apply it to any readings while syncing.

I made this set using some cheapy in-dash vacuum gauges from Harbor Freight.

SyncTool.jpg


This way I could watch the vacuum while riding. It was a valuable tool in troubleshooting the sticky slides in these carbs but not nearly as accurate as the mercury sticks.

Do yourself a favor and get a mercury manometer. Yes, they are spendy and getting hard to find but they are simple, accurate and reliable. You will have it the rest of your life. They don't wear out and never need calibrating. If you add up all the time you would spend dicking around with other methods you will see that the mercury sticks aren't just the best tool but the best value also.
 
Also, will my existing gas line set up work with the new carbs?...Currently the gas tank on my XS605 SG has only the one / vacuum petcock, so I assume the single gas line splits into two and then attaches to the current BS34s.

Your stock carbs are tied together so there is only one fuel line feeding both carbs. You will need to T the fuel line from the petcock to feed each of the new carbs. One thing this all-in-one kit does not come with is a T for the fuel line. If you have a better hardware/plumbing store near by then you should be able to find a brass T with 1/4" barbs.
 
OK, looks like I'm off to Harbor Freight for some vacuum gauges...and I'll try to find a brass T with 1/4" barbs for the fuel system set up.

Last question: where did you end up getting [and what] the cable/parts to take care of the cable issues?

Thanks again for all your advise!
 
I bought a MotionPro Banshee twist grip throttle kit from a local dealer. This allowed me to upgrade to a fast action dirtbike throttle with no switches, which I wanted to do anyway to clean up the bars.

If you want to retain the stock throttle then try contacting 650Central.
 
Great info!

OK, unfortunately at this point I don't know if I'm going to be able to even get a set of vacuum gauges in time for the installation tomorrow morning [much less a "mercury stick"].

But I am determined to get these on the bike & ride the 20 miles home - since I haven't ridden yet all season!

Can you offer any "down & dirty" tips that would allow me to get the carbs dialed in close enough to get me home even if I don't get my hands on vacuum gauges?

Thanks so much again for all the information!... If you were here I'd buy you multiple beers!

:cheers:
 
You should be able to adjust it well enough by ear just to get home.

For your sake, I hope that your jetting out of the box isn't as far off as mine was. I couldn't make it around the block without fouling the plugs, let alone 20 miles. Be sure to carry a couple spare sets of plugs and enough tools to change the pilots and needle clips.
 
OK... so I mounted the carbs, turned the air screws in until they seated and then turned them out 1-1/2 turns and upon starting her up she would run rough.
This was to be expected, but while waiting for her to warn up, if she started to drop in RPMs to the point where I thought she would stall, I would try blipping the throttle.
At that point, the RPMs would jump way up & so I would have to shut her down.
See, the problem is, I just had the rings replaced so I'm kinda "breaking in" the motor, so don't have the luxury of letting the engine run at higher RPMs while I mess with it/tweak the carbs...
I'm thinking there may be an issue with the throttle cable: you mentioned getting one at 650Central --- I just looked at their site & didn't see any throttle cable that might work with this set up...Am I missing something?

Thanks!
 
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