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No. Spark. Still.

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by jasidok, Oct 14, 2018.

  1. jasidok

    jasidok Live Life to the fullest!

    1978 xs650se. Her names Rose.
    Pamco ignition with e advancer.
    Pma and Reg/rec.
    removed old wiring and re wired. Removed safety relay and the two light relays.
    New dyno dual tower ignition coil. With new plugs and wires.
    New battery. New headlight.
    I don’t get it man. Could it be the Pamco/ e advancer? I have tried literally everything else. I simply don’t get it. Checked valves. I’m just so at a loss. How do I know if it’s the Pamco?
     
  2. jasidok

    jasidok Live Life to the fullest!

    I’m just trying to get a good solid ride in before it’s too cold. I want to hit the road for a few days man... and this whole spark thing.... I don’t know how to fix it. I’ve been trying for weeks.
     
  3. grizld1

    grizld1 Grumpy old man Top Contributor

    First off, can you see a strong blue spark when you remove and ground a spark plug and spin the motor? If you can't (no spark or weak yellow), turn the key and kill switches on, check 12V power at the battery, and compare to power to coils and ignition. If there's more than 1/2V drop between battery and ignition, find out where the bad connection is. Please note: the last guy who played "Yes-but" with this advice ("Yes, but my wiring, ignition, and coils are all new...") wound up struggling for months before I got my hands on his bike and tracked the grief to a dirty switch.

    Please take note. Some guys get it to work, but the combination of permanent magnet alternator and Pamco ignition has caused trouble for quite a few owners. I'll offer this again: the only part of the OE charging system that's prone to failure is the rotor. If the OE rotor is given a quality rewind, it will be good for another 40 years or so. A quality job from Custom Rewind of Birmingham, AL will cost you less than a trash Chiwanese repop and the rewound rotor will be better than OE quality.
     
    peanut likes this.
  4. Jim

    Jim The thrill of victory and da agony of da feet. Top Contributor XS650.com Supporter

    You recall what they charge Dick?
     
    MaxPete likes this.
  5. grizld1

    grizld1 Grumpy old man Top Contributor

    I want to say around $150 plus usable core, but it's been awhile since I had mine done. One of the best things about a Custom Rewind rotor is that they use heavier wire than Mama Yama wanted to pay for. The result is a rotor than magnetizes fully at 4 ohms instead of 5-plus, so it runs cooler and will probably last longer--can't say that for sure, don't know of anybody who's had one fail! We'll have to wait a few decades to know about longevity.
     
    MaxPete, robinc and Jim like this.
  6. pamcopete

    pamcopete Ride.Enjoy.Life is Simple

    It's not so much a PMA setup not working with a PAMCO. It's usually a case of the PMA not producing a reliable true DC Voltage in the range of 9 to 18 Volts and most installations of a PMA also use a PAMCO so we hear about that combination having issues. Remember that Yamaha introduced a solid state regulator when they introduced their TCI ignition as electronics are more reliable with a well regulated true DC Voltage, not a poorly regulated, poorly filtered quasi DC Voltage that many PMA setups produce, either due to a lack of engineering or a poor installation or both.
    That is why I always recommend that you first get the engine running with a full size, fully charged battery with the PMA and its regulator completely disconnected. The PAMCO draws very little current, so you can run the engine without an alternator for several hours to verify it is working OK before connecting the PMA and regulator.
    Sometimes the PMA does such a poor job that it produces a damaging high Voltage that can fry the ignition, so even with the caution of just using a battery to get started, you should then be sure to have a Voltmeter connected when you finally hook up the PMA and regulator before starting the engine and check the battery Voltage from idle to at least 3,5000 RPM, waiting for the battery to catch up its charge.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2018
    jasidok, DaveO and gggGary like this.
  7. jasidok

    jasidok Live Life to the fullest!

    Ok. I’m going to try both of these. Pete, I’ll try yours first. Disconnect the whole Pma system. Then, ( if I need to ) I will try to see about the spark with the key turned off. I guess I’ll try that with athe battery as well as without. Then (if I need to) I’ll scope out the wiring.

    I did not keep the old stator ‍♂️ But I kept the old points. I love the Pamco...... I’m thinking it has to be the wiring. Because nothing is that old. And it worked fine for a few weeks on the old wiring setup. The stock wiring harness. But then it stopped working with that harness somewhere along the way. Ok. I’ll give updates soon.
     
  8. jasidok

    jasidok Live Life to the fullest!

    I have three batteries. Would it help to hook them all up?
     
  9. fredintoon

    fredintoon Fred Hill, S'toon. Top Contributor

    Hi jasidok,
    only in parallel, eh? Feeding 36 Volts to your Pamco ain't recommended.
    If you want to run static tests, better to borrow a 12Volt car battery than to McGyver 3 bike batteries together.
     
    peanut and jasidok like this.
  10. jasidok

    jasidok Live Life to the fullest!

    ...... yea ..... sometimes McGyvering things is pretty fun for me. And I get carried away sometimes. Just throwing ideas around.
     
  11. jasidok

    jasidok Live Life to the fullest!

    Alright man. I have a whole bunch of readings.

    With the bike off and key out kill switch turned to off.... I’m getting .43 volts from the primary connectors and it jumped between -.2 and 0 mv from the ignition wires.

    Bike on. Kill switch off. .01v from the top primary and .007 from the bottom primary. .087 v from both spark plug wires.

    Bike on. Kill switch on. 12.96v from the primary top. 12.95v from the bottom primary. .3 mv from both spark plug wires.
     
  12. jasidok

    jasidok Live Life to the fullest!

    Without the pma. No luck.
     
  13. jasidok

    jasidok Live Life to the fullest!

    68A17F5F-4CC1-4482-8FC9-A51E9C7BCFBA.jpeg I don’t know when I’m supposed to see the spark when I have the spark plug out of the engine, just grounded to the engine, in the park plug wire, manually turning the crank. But I did more than two full 360s and didn’t see a spark. I will go get my new spark plugs from home. And I guess I’ll pick up another pair of new ones as well on the way back. I attached a picture of the condition of my spark plugs currently in there after trying to start it with and without the pma.
     
  14. jasidok

    jasidok Live Life to the fullest!

    :laughing::thumbsdown::thumbsdown::laughing::(

    Nope. Brand new bp7es. .30” gap. Nothing. But there’s no spark. There’s power getting to them..... but no spark....??? What???? Is it the e advancer??? Can I hook up the points? How should I go about doing that?
     
  15. mrtwowheel

    mrtwowheel Honda Etched On Brain Top Contributor

    Please explain the WHOLE procedure that you are using to check for spark at the plug, your last two posts are ……………..?

    Any pictures may help.

    Scott
     
    TwoManyXS1Bs likes this.
  16. jasidok

    jasidok Live Life to the fullest!

    Alright. I’m going to go through the entire wiring process as well. Pics are on the way.
     
  17. jasidok

    jasidok Live Life to the fullest!

    Hey everyone who has been helping and anyone who sees this. Before I go any further. I figured I’d take a peek at the e-advancer. Well. This is what I found. And I’ve sent this in a pm to Pete. I’ve also gone ahead and ordered the basic pamco that utilizes the mechanical advancer. I believe this is not a good sign. But. I will still go through the motions of going through all my wiring now.
     

    Attached Files:

  18. pamcopete

    pamcopete Ride.Enjoy.Life is Simple

    That is not a PAMCO product. Where did you buy it?

    This is what a genuine PAMCO E-Advancer looks like. [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2018
  19. 650Skull

    650Skull Dinosaur Lives Top Contributor

    From MikesXS
    Product Warranty/Liability

    General merchandise is guaranteed for 45 Days from date of retail against manufacturer's defect in workmanship or material. Guarantee is limited to replacement of the unit or defective component thereof only. Any item which has been modified, subjected to misuse, neglect, incorrect installation or application is not covered.

    We make every effort to ensure every product we sell is made from quality materials and fits your motorcycle. If you have a problem, we make every effort to help resolve the issue. Please see our Returns Policy for further details.

    Please note, manufacturer warranties must be addressed with the manufacturers and often times the manufacturers require any claimed defective part be sent directly to them.

    Rules/Exceptions:

    • We can't accept items that are used or have been "tested".

    • Our policy is not to accept returns on Electrical, carburetor/related parts, but please contact our customer service department to see if you qualify for an exception.

    • Returns must be requested within 45 days of the customer receiving the part.

    • Most of the time we accept the return free of charge, but reserve the right to charge a 15% restocking charge.

    • Customer must pay to ship the item back.

    • Returns must include an RMA number or they will be refused.




    HA, Ha, Ha, it is starting already........Jasidok........Get in touch with the people who you bought it off..........Going by MikesXS "Warranty" and "Rules and Exceptions" they have covered their arse so there is no way they legally have to replace the Pamco...OPPS, XScharge ignition.....Since you have taken it apart and installed it the warranty is null and void....This goes to show people are going to be buying pamcos from MikesXS, (who want people to think they are pamcos), when they are not.
     

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