Discussion in 'The Garage' started by inxs, Oct 17, 2009.
Worked like a charm I found another bottom plate with sump filter so that's repaired as well
You guys are going way out there on this filter engineering. Have you ever seen a 650 wear bad due to
lubrication shortcomings ? Have you seen bearings, rods, pistons wear out for the same reason ? ? .
The 650 engine is basically a bulletproof overbuilt design. The shortcoming of the sump screen is that
Yamaha built the 650 without a crank oil dam so the screen gets the full force of the pulsing oil whipping off the crank
and this force eventually breaks the screen. The sump screen was meant to catch the big chunks from getting to the side case
oil filter and the oil pump. Fuji of Japan was the builder of Fram's filters in Japan and the factory owner made
the improved screens for Mike as he was a friend and did it as a favor. Fuji Japan has just built a subsidiary factory
in Taiwan so expect the price to come down soon. If you want a better side case filter use the Heiden/Lalonde
filter cooler with the Honda XT/TT paper filter ($4.20 ) and other than that cooling of the oil is all you need for dramatic
improvement. Big fin cylinder, an oil cooler, better oil with zinc (ZZDP) like Valvoline Racing 20W50 all will also help.
Im second owner of a very clean .79 SF with 7k miles and the sump screen was torn. the moon filter had some junk in it I plan to wash it out or get a better filter if the mikes filter is still the good Fuji (their ad doesn't mention). and for my sump filter I'd like to get the best replacement and again the mikes filter looks same as the amazon filter and neither says Fuji. As for wear on motors, I would think it logical that metal wear getting into the oil and circulating through the engine would logically make for more engine wear... I like the idea of oil filters vs screens and I like oil coolers for air cooled bikes that run hot (good for old Harleys.. and I have one on an old GS1000 and wonder what temp the XS motor runs at.)
I'm not aware of a better sump filter. The supposedly reinforced MikesXS offering blows out just the same as the original, the reason being that although reinforced with a perforated metal sheet backing behind the screen, they failed to put it in the area that always blows out. So, it's really not much of an improvement, lol. Actually, I prefer patched originals. The magnets fall out of the MikesXS filter as well.
Well, since most tearouts I've seen are in the back of the filter, I'd have to disagree with that.
I’m using this one from Heiden. Putting break in miles on now. Also made a rubber neoprene sump gasket and will give some feedback when I drop the oil and filters after a couple hundred miles.
Jim: You disagree so what is the reason that the sump screen breaks ?
My guess is revin' too high on a cold engine with thick oil.
That's the theory most of us support. I also think Yamaha should have designed the filter more like the Heiden one above, with no screening directly around the oil intake port. It seems the suction is just to great in that area.
I recently found one of my patched filters had torn again. The repair didn't fail, it simply tore in another spot at that end of the filter. It seems when you patch the usual tear spot, it simply shifts the stress point to somewhere else on that end of the filter. This has led me to block that whole end of the filter off with a tin shield. It's not 100% oil tight but hopefully will cut way down on the force of the flow there.
how are you patching the filters? I'm disinclined to use a material that might break free and clog or damage the motor../
This whole thread is about patching filters and the various ways to do it. Starts back on page 1.
Yes, I understand that, but the J.B.Weld repair is a proven one. I've been running various filters patched with it for better than 10 years now and never had an issue. When you apply it directly to the screening, that makes a very good backing and an excellent surface for it to adhere to.
You'll notice the filter on the lower left is one of those new "improved" MikesXS ones. It was torn in the usual spot at the first oil change, plus the magnet was broken loose. That's why I don't really care for them and won't buy them anymore. I think the originals are made better.
One of the things that sold me on the Heiden one above is you can take a peek up inside the drain hole for metal swarf and the dreaded black rubber chunks (cam chain tensioner) and kinda see what’s doing before you pull off the sump plate. If it’s clear...well maybe take it down next oil change
The screen is certainly not as fine as the stocker versions so curious to see what makes it to the pressure side filter in the clutch cover. I put the HT filter/cooler kit on mine as well so I can toss it an put in a fresh virgin filter on every change.
Again, still putting on break in miles before the first real oil change so I’ll have to see how it works.
Will be pulling the sump plate off on the first OC for sure.
Lets all remember that Yamaha put this design together over 50 years ago on the first
4-stoke engine. This was a genius design when compared to what was in the Brit 650's
back in the 60's
Yes, for all it's faults, I still love the thing, lol. And as far as faults go, there really aren't that many.
Exactly. I have a photo of an XS650 crank and trans sitting in a set of Yamaha TD road race engine
cases and it's clear where the beginnings of the XS650 began.
Where can you get that bottom screw off cartridge mod from now? The old links I saw go nowhere....Seems one could just weld up the bottom plate threads and machine new to match the cartridge.
I have NEVER torn one. In the 37 years I've had my 650, the torn sump never happened to me. I have no clue what happened to my original filter. I think the local Yammie dealer told me the screen was the Achilles heel of the bike and I changed it based on that, not knowing the issue. Every other engine I've opened had a torn screen. I just never had it happen in my bike.
Humm, reading around in this thread...I went, pulled my filter n bottom off (was finger tight) and I ask why not proactively put some of that SS mesh over the original filter mesh area that flattens out? OR, just divert that hard flow point gluing a thin cap to the top n bottom of the original filter. You could make a middle bend to divert flow left and right reducing back pressure....Here's my Scotch take prototype pressure diverter.
First I didn’t read this whole thread. It’s a bit long and a decade old. Haha. What’s wrong with this? Took a piece of sheet metal. There is a small gap between the stock screen and my plate. Any issue please let me know.
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