OMG 5twins Centerstand Mods

[Gordon in nc]

This should probably just be added to another thread but I'm in a hurry so I'll just do it here. My 75B came with a broken centerstand. The tang (for lack of a better term) was broken off of it. I welded a short piece of metal on it so I could at least get my foot on it and just lived with it. I could get it on the stand but it took some effort. My background is with Brits and all of those I own take some effort to get them on the centerstand so I thought I was okay.........fast forward to me adding some hardbags to the bike and I lost the lifting handle and couldn't get the bike up without it....so I jury rigged up another lifting handle and I was back in business.

I had picked up a 75B parts bike and it had a good centerstand but it looked like it came over on the Mayflower and I just set it aside until I had time to sort it out. WELL, I finally got it sandblasted and painted, installed the brace and zert mods with 5twins talking me through it. Mounted that sucker today and I will tell you boys and girls......I am freaking amazed. I had read that downward pressure on the tang was all you needed to raise the bike....to be honest I didn't believe it...until 15 mins ago. I have never had a bike go up on the stand so easily....I only used the lifting handle to steady the bike.

When I took the old stand off, the pins were dusty/rusty dry and I KNOW I had greased them with high dollar waterproof grease when I put them in. With those zerts in place that will never happen again.

I am so happy with the results.....thank you 5twins for the help and for sharing your wisdom.

YGS.........Gordon Gray in North Carolina

 

[retiredgentleman]

Great job Gordon on the centre stand repair and mods! Yes, the downward pressure on the tang trick, is a real mechanical engineering feat.
In my garage, I cheat by always having a 1.5 inch piece of wood, that I drive the bike's rear wheel up onto. That way there is no effort required to use the centre stand. Having said that, I can't cheat like that when I'm away from my home, such as on trips or bike nites.
I've been aware of 5twins mod to use grease fittings, for quite a long time, but I've just never got around to it. Your post has now given me a wake up call, and I've decided to stop procrastinating and install those grease nipples.
Cheers

 

[TimeMachine]

Center Stand, So useful ! Can't imagine not having a center stand .. I kick start on the center stand even sometimes. Way to go Gordon ! -RT

 

[wrenchjohns]

Thinking about this, with a modified 78 stand on the XS1 this prolly is a grand idea. john

 

[Bob Kelly III]

Humm I noticed my center stand was bent... after looking at many XS's I pulled the center stand off and discovered it was in horrable shape...
the bend that goes around the muffler is almost rusted through and the main legs were bent forward quite a bit.... I figure MY brother inlaw did that
because he would ronch on it and slam it down and pull up at the same time to get it up on the centerstand....
I took the big ball-peene hammer and worked it over but was unable to get allot of the bend out and it looked tweeked one leg is shorter than the other
too or at least it looked that way.... the foot assist hook is bent out quite a way and it definately has to come off again to get that perswaded back in some.... this thing has alwayse been hard /near impossable to get on the centerstand its narrow stance has a tendancy to allow it to fall over sideways
I was thinking of modifying it to be more user friendly and maybe adding more metal to striengthen it some....
I did notice when I put it back on that the foot hook now hits the ground when its up on the stand.... (not how it should be I am sure)
and I think it goes too far forward , i think the stops must be bent too
if need be I'll put it in the press and straighten those tubes to the feet but I wanted to ask here if they are straight on a 82 Heritage special or are they normially curved ? I think they should be straight ...I'm Hoping 5twins Knows !!!!!
..... mine have a fairly good "C" shape to them
and it just don't look right !
Bob............

 

[fredintoon]

Hi Bob,
that C-shape don't look right because it ain't right.
I don't have my '84 XS650 Heritage Special's centerstand installed because I'm using it's frame mounts to help hold my sidecar subframe on.
Which is why I can take the centerstand off the storage shelf and look at it. It's main tubular frame is a straight trapezoid, not a curve in it.

 

[Bob Kelly III]

LOL no wonder its so hard to get up on it !
thank you Fred !....
One more thing to fix I guess....lol
that Bike was setting on it's center stand for decades and whe I took it off I left a trail of rust on the shop floor....
I wondered why the rear wheel was so close to the ground when it was on the center stand....now I know ! it didn't touch but it was purty darn close !
now it's about 2" off the ground .... I gained at least 1 1/2" clearance with my big ball-peene ! LOL
and yes it was all I could do to get it up on the stand the last time I did it ! there has to be a better way than that.....
a remake is in the books....
..... I don't remember which bike it was I had that the foot hook was longer but tucked in nicely I think it was the Kawasaki W1650 (a BSA Copy from Kawasaki)... it went up on the centerstand real easy and I think this bike needs that. it was Robust to say the least too.
that machine was a handling machine ! it would corner so well it was unreal, on it I had my 1st Wreck a 4X4 turned sideways in the road in front of me and I hit his front wheel at about 45mph.... so I know what a swatted fly feels like ! the impact was so hard it broke the roller cage on the main berrings
I walked away from it sore but unharmed my bike was toast never got to ride it for more than a block after that. <sniff> she was a go'l goodern !
LOL
anyway.... i think making a whole new stand is in order,....or highly modifying the one that's on it.. dunno which yet.
thank you for affirming my suspissions ! that is so very Helpfull , No really ! otherwise I would have had to ask around elsewhere and try to asertain what it looked like originally or maybe even buy one (god forbid !) now I don't have to ! Thanks man !
.......
now that the bikes runnin' I can take it off take the bike out of the tiny shop and leave it outside where it belongs so I can put my shop back together again ! I havn't been able to use the Shopsmith or 3in 1 Mill,Drill,lathe in weeks ! and it's Killing me ! LOL
i mean I could be makin' SOMETHING !!!!!!! HAHAHAHA!
....
I'ed really like to see a Picture of that stand if you happen to have one Fred, I'ed really appreaciate it a bunch !.... no hurry ! just if ya got nothing else to do ! LOL....
....
C ya !
Bob..........

 

[Bob Kelly III]

So "Gordon in NC" what are "5Twins's" mods ???? did he post them somewhere ? I'm interested !!!...indeed !
.....
Bob............

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

Bob, welcome to the "Insomniac Hour".

Good info and pics of 5twins' centerstand mods can be found in here:

http://www.xs650.com/threads/the-centerstand-challenge-lift-assist-handle.46892/

 

[Bob Kelly III]

HAHAHA I'm Nocturnal,.... it's normal fer me ! but thanks for the link anyway ! i'll check it out right now !
C ya !
Bob.........

 

[Gordon in nc]

Bob......I'm running late this morning so I'll make this quick. One of the things I LOVE about the XS is the availabilty of parts.....GOOD, USED (thanks to the bobber guys) and inexpensive too. When I started on this stand I had my broken one, a good one (as far I know....I'm still very new to XS's) and 5twins' excellent photos to compare to but I wanted a good example to compair the bracing to. So.......off to ebay just for shits and giggles. There were dozens of XS centerstands for sale. I found a good used late model stand with all the improvements for $14 plus shipping. Now I have an example to follow and all this one needs are the zerts added ( so easy to do).

I used eBay a lot a few years ago but not so much these days.....but I do use it to get an idea of what things are selling for.....it's still a handy tool.

I betcha if you contacted gggGary he could set you up with a late model stand and if you couldn't find one on this board......ebay has several. Be careful though, some of the ebay stands are missing an important piece of the puzzle.

Good luck and see you fellows down the road......I'm off to Va to drag back another XS......"I'm my worst enemy" Pink

Gordon in NC

 

[Bob Kelly III]

Oh you bumm ! another one ? now that just being spoiled !
I don't need another stand really I have a welder ! LOL and some scrap steel .... and I can fix anything ! LOL
hay if you happen to see my buddy Sonny Jeffers in NC tell him I said HI ....he's a gyro friend ! ain't talked to that o'l Coonass in years !
.... catcha' later !
Bob.............

 

[Bob Kelly III]

welp.... I pulled off the center stand cut the feet off between the webbing they added to striengthen it... there was a half to three quarters gap on the foot hook side so I cut that piece out and welded it back together took the piece i took out and measured for the right side tube marked it and cut it as straight as possable.... took out the piece and welded that sides foot back on..... put it back on and walla I could almost put it up on the stand with just foot pressure a bit more with my arm about 50lbs is all and she went back on the stand..... Pulled it back off and hit it with some rattle can paint for good measure when it dries I'll put it back on ! .... the hook for the foot lever was not bent in enough so I ronched on it with a big Monkey wrench and almost kinked it getting it where I wanted it, so I welded a bead in the almost kinked area and called it good enough !
all in all I took off about 1/2" to 5/8" off each side they started off at 9" from bolt center to the bench, wound up 8 1/4"..... from bolt center to the bench
.... I know the numbers don't add up but I did take out at least 1/2" LOL.....
but it has cured the 3" rise and drop of the bike getting it on the center stand..... Much Much easier now ,,,,HOWEVER I thought of this while I was doing the cutting..... they may well have made the back so high off the ground so you could get the tire off AND OUT past the fender.... but should I run into problems there I will just put it on a 2X4 and man handle it up on the stand like old times ! LOL
.....the weld is Ugly but paint hides allot of sins !
so 1/2" is all it took to make it a great deal easier to get it up on the center stand !
later all !
Bob...........

 

[5twins]

Here's a late model stand with factory braced tang. The only curved part is the tang. The legs and cross brace are relatively straight. The leg with the tang does angle out slightly below the cross brace .....

On earlier stands without the braced tang, this is what usually happens eventually .....

My mods consist of adding a brace to the tang and grease nipples to the pivots. Here's the above broken stand after I "fixed" it .....

I can't stress enough the importance of keeping the pivots well greased. Many centerstands on other bikes simply squeeze the tops of the stand tubes flat and drill a hole through for the pivot. The pivot bolt to hole contact width isn't much more than 1/4". The 650 stand has a pivot tube nearly 1 3/8" long. This provides a tremendous amount of contact area by comparison. If you keep it greased, it works very well, distributing the lifting and rotational load over a very large area. Let it dry out and the results are even worse than on a pinched tube top stand. It binds up big time, probably to the point of nearly seizing at times. You want/need those pivot tubes turning on a bed of grease.

The second mod, bracing the tang, I feel is equally important. Besides the obvious benefit of keeping it from eventually breaking off, it stiffens the connection between the leg and the tang. When you step on the tang to deploy the stand, it doesn't flex down and away from the leg like it used to. More of your stepping force gets to the stand and that makes it easier to deploy.

I told Gordon he would be amazed at the difference these mods make and well, he actually said it - he was amazed, lol. On a Special, they may not help as much, but I'm sure you'd see some improvement. With that 16" rear wheel and laid down shocks, they must be lifted more to get them on their stand. A little stand leg shortening may be what they ultimately need.

 

[fredintoon]

About those stand tang bracings,
I remember seeing (on this list or in a catalog; I don't remember exactly where, help me anyone?)
a series of photos showing XS650 stands.
The claim was that you could tell which year bike the stand came off by the amount of extra bracing that
Yamaha added to the tang because the bastards kept breaking off.

 

[5twins]

Well, I don't think you could tell the exact year, maybe just narrow it down some. The factory tang bracing didn't come along until '82 I think. The tang tube style is something else that changed over the years. If you notice the other stand in my pic above of the broken one, it's tang tube is tapered. It's a smaller O.D. out at the ball end, larger in at the leg end. That's the stand that came on my '78. The one I'm repairing there came off my buddy's 1980 model. His tang tube is the same diameter for it's whole length. I'm guessing another little cost saving effort on Yamaha's part. Straight tubing has got to be cheaper than tapered stuff.

 

[Bob Kelly III]

5Twins: Don't think that your Zerk Crazy indevor has gon on deft ears completely I will put Zerks in the swing arm pivots.... the problem is
drilling the holes through the Thicking up of the weld.... I use 6011 rod and it's HARD my drills or taps won't cut it what the heck do you use ???
....
Bob...........

 

[5twins]

6013

 

[Bob Kelly III]

thas still harder than my cheap o'l drill bits can handle.... maybe in my pile of drill bits I have I can find a good hard drill bit.lol
I have a few good taps (american made) handed down from my Dad decades ago.....
the Zerks have are many and verious..... I'll see which works best when it's up on the stand ! HAHAH!
thanks fer the help !
Bob..........

 

[xjwmx]

Surprisingly, amazingly, confoundingly, the tangs are a hollow tube. Here's another shot of a factory gusseted tang which I got from Dogbunny after the tang on my original broke off. Maybe the tang only came on the Heritage bikes. Was not stock on my '81.