I'm thinking maybe a 2' level held up against the bottom of the angle bracket connecting the 2 carbs. Most of it can hang out the side and that way you can read the bubble.
 
Yup good idea, will give it a go if it's not too tall. Should fit. I also have some smaller torpedo levels that I could use, but reading the bubble would be tougher.

Will keep playing and see what we see.
 
Could also use a string level with a small straight rod.
LineLevel.jpg
 
There's that engineers mind of yours going again 2M. Great idea.

Just tried your idea and it confirmed what I discovered using a torpedo level earlier. My 2' level and others are too tall to fit in there.

The left side of the bike is sitting higher by about 1 - 1.5 mm. Put the level on the slab in front of the centrestand and got the same reading.

So if I were to go through the effort of shimming the right side up to lower the left by that amount, looks like it would be pretty much bang on. At least as close as this inaccurate test shows anyways.

Gonna say good enough for now!
 
This is from the 82J manual..........BS34's. Has some information regarding the hose size that confirms your 6mm 2m. this also states the bike should be started and run a bit then turned off. I quess this is to make sure things are settled and give the carbs a chance to operate properly........I realize these are 34's and not 38's as per your bike robinc........... just a couple of things to look at, i like the idea of running the bike before measuring with a tube.

XS650SJ Service manual Jpeg072.jpg
 
never trust a level................always turn them around 180 and read the fish fart again. You may be surprised what you find
 
Good info Skull, thanks. Will go through this process after warming it up as well.

Yup, I'm always showing customers and employees in hardware stores how to test a level.
I find you have to test a few before you find one to buy.
 
Well hang onto your hats guys. I finally have a non carburetor question.

Over the time I have been riding I have noticed a very occasional clicking noise in the front forks when I hit a bump. It has gotten quite a bit worse lately.

I know you guys have heard every noise imaginable and wondered if anyone might know what this is. It sounds like it's at the top of the lower outer fork tube just below the dust seal. Happens in both sides. I read through MaxPetes recent fork springs thread,

http://www.xs650.com/threads/forking-around-with-lucille.49710/page-2

and see he had found that the springs had weakened and shortened by 1.5".

Could this be the case here as well, and the noise is those shortened springs hitting the pistons or something in there?


Thanks for any help and advice.
 
This is the '77? If so, it may be the forks topping out. Put it on the centerstand and listen for that same click as you do so. The later forks have small anti-top out springs in them, the '77 forks don't. Full extension means the head of the damper rod makes metal to metal contact with the bottom of the fork tube. You can add the top out springs from a set of later forks if you like .....

2hZZYXd.jpg
 
Well hang onto your hats guys. I finally have a non carburetor question.

Over the time I have been riding I have noticed a very occasional clicking noise in the front forks when I hit a bump. It has gotten quite a bit worse lately.

I know you guys have heard every noise imaginable and wondered if anyone might know what this is. It sounds like it's at the top of the lower outer fork tube just below the dust seal. Happens in both sides. I read through MaxPetes recent fork springs thread,

http://www.xs650.com/threads/forking-around-with-lucille.49710/page-2

and see he had found that the springs had weakened and shortened by 1.5".

Could this be the case here as well, and the noise is those shortened springs hitting the pistons or something in there?


Thanks for any help and advice.
Robin,
The front brake pads on my '76 clatter over bumps. There has been some discussion of this recently. I tried disc brake silencing goop, but didn't work. Perhaps this is the issue? My FJR has the same issue, but I wear earplugs when I ride that bike :)
Edit: Oh, nevermind, your good video suggests otherwise......
 
Ah, OK. Yes this is the 77. I will listen for that when I put it on the centrestand. Thanks 5twins.

I was wondering if this was a safety issue, although I guess nothings going to come apart.

If I can find some of those top out springs will add that to the list.

Thanks for the info.
 
On a really nice sunny fall day, how come it takes 2 -1/2 hours on the highway to run a 10 min. in town errand? :shrug:
We also had perfect riding weather here, today, and I took the '76 to a local farmstand for fresh veggies. It somehow took almost 2 hours :bike:
 
After, cleanup and rebuild I installed these carbs 'borrowed’ from my other 78E project.

img_20170915_153721-jpg.106229


img_20170915_153709-jpg.106231


img_20170915_153821-jpg.106232


img_20170915_154150-jpg.106233


Boy are they sweet!

Idles smooth and steady, pulls great through all RPM’s with no miss, hesitation or stumble. Settles down nicely on decel.

Occasionally I will still get a little idle fluctuation on either set of carbs when rolling to a stop but I wonder if that has to do with the weak engine and what MaxPete refers to as lower volumetric efficiency due to oil contamination?

Interesting note:
On the first set of 78/79 carbs I had on, the right mix screw had to be richened from 2 1/4 turns to 3 while the left is at 2 3/8. I still have to swap those mix screws side to side as per 5twins suggestion to see if the problem follows and will do so next time that set’s on the bike.

On this set, the left is at spec 2 1/4 but the right had to be richened as well to 2 1/2 turns out.

I checked my notes and in years past it was the left plug that would oil foul and would shut down that side which would lead me to believe that the left cylinder seals/rings are in worse shape. (Back then I thought it was rich carb carbon fouling)

Running hotter plugs as per gggGary's suggestion is allowing me to ride for now but I find it interesting that on the weaker left side the carbs are at or very close to factory settings and on the stronger right side both sets of carbs have to be richer.

Well, I'll keep riding out and enjoying what's left of our season here and someday my 78E Black Betty will be happy to have her carbs back.
 
Good to hear you enjoying your riding weather. You will have plenty of long cold nights to ponder gremlins.
 
Thanks WER. Yes that's true and on those long cold nights those gremlins will likely be forgotten...lol.
 
So it's been a good season. Put 2400 miles on since the middle of July on this tired old engine. Had a lot of fun, burnt a lot of oil.

After Maxpete and DanielBlack recently did their starter gear fixes I figured I couldn't let them have all the fun so thought I'd join the club before pulling the engine while it's still above freezing here. Wasn't having any issues with my clutch but was interested to see what I might find there as well
Tipped her over, crash bars are handy for this too, also placed a padded jack stand at the rear of the frame.

IMG_20171101_094907.jpg

Couple of buggered clutch spring screws so someone had been in there before.
#3 JIS Impacta screwdriver made short work of removing them. They will be replaced with XS Performance Socket head bolts and sleeves.

Kickstart washer stuck to the sidecover.

In our inimitable Maxpete's words:
I reached around and popped the bike into first gear, re-mounted the rear brake pedal, pulled down on the pedal to lock the rear wheel and hit that 29mm nut with my electric buzz-gun.

That puppy had that 29mm nut off faster than a bride's nighty.

29mm nut here too but this bride didn't give in that easy. Took a little extra love with an air impact.

Now here's where it get's interesting and where I need some advice from you guys.

Once I got to the clutch pack and removed it I found metal filings in the bottom of the basket. In my excitement at this discovery I didn't get a picture, but here is where they were.

screenshot_20171101_135347.jpg


It appeared to be a small sheared off pin and some assorted filings, so I carefully cleaned them out. But once I pulled the needle bearing out I could see that one of the pressed in roller bearings had grenaded.

IMG_20171101_114104.jpg


IMG_20171101_114439.jpg


Here is the clutch pack.
Fibres are within spes - 2.96 - 2.99mm
Steels are within specs - 1.36mm
Also springs are within specs - 34.6mm

IMG_20171101_121622.jpg


They are very hard. I cannot dent them with a fingernail. Looking at the bottom fibre plate you can see a groove worn in I expect from the pieces of that roller bearing that I found.

IMG_20171101_121635.jpg


So questions:
1) Because of their hardness, should I replace these fibre plates? Not a big deal, they're still available OEM.

2) One of my clutch cush springs will rotate and a second will move slightly. I have read a comment by 5twins that this is a pretty involved and expensive job. I can see that as I guess you'd have to drill out the factory rivets and then replace with the special bolts and springs that come in the Mikes kit. First of all I don't relish the idea of this job and also don't like the idea of having nuts and bolts parts that could potentially come apart in place of rivets.
Will these 2 loose cush springs cause me a big problem, or will it be ok to reuse this?

3) I see the OEM needle bearing 93341-23504-00 is unavailable. Mikes/XSDirect sell a needle bearing with thrust washer kit.
Any recommendations or opinions on this kit?

Thank guys, I appreciate your opinions and advice.

I reached in the rag bag for an old T-shirt to cover her up and pulled out this old shirt of one of my kids. LOL.
Lets hope this will be true for her again someday!

IMG_20171101_143624.jpg
 
Great shop work write up. Looks to me like the clutch got assembled with that bearing slipped out of place, did the damage. I'm thinking if the springs on the back aren't broken you'll be fine.
 
Well Robin,
Another excellent write up. As you know, I'm right behind you on this job, so I will be paying close attention.
Also, I've been waffling trying to decide if I should just buy clutch plates and be done with it. It seems everyone has these rock hard friction plates, so I'm leaning towards just getting them.
One more note, your photography is top notch.
And your old girl WILL feel fabulous again soon!
 
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