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On the road again at 40.............the bike that is

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by robinc, May 16, 2017.

  1. robinc

    robinc Member of the 'yellow meter gang' Top Contributor

    :umm::shrug: Pete.
     
    Jim likes this.
  2. TwoManyXS1Bs

    TwoManyXS1Bs BBQ Hunter Top Contributor

    It's driving me nuts. I'm thinking old nylon, that's turned yellow/brown, from age/heat. And, there's white nylon used in a variety of places.

    How 'bout cleaning them up, and closeup pics?

    See if any fit together, like jigsaw pieces...
     
    gggGary and Jim like this.
  3. 5twins

    5twins XS650 Guru Top Contributor

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    They look like the epoxy that holds the screens in the oil filters.
     
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  4. Jim

    Jim Beyond the edge, is the unknown. Here be Dragons XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Yeah...... that's what I'm thinkin'
     
    gggGary likes this.
  5. MaxPete

    MaxPete Lucille, Betty & Demi - I suggest but THEY decide. XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

  6. robinc

    robinc Member of the 'yellow meter gang' Top Contributor

    OK, as we play guess the mystery plastic. Here's what I laid out yesterday.
    IMG_20180720_174707.jpg

    I know what Jim and 5twins are referring to, and when I looked at this, I thought I had seen something somewhere that kinda looked like this.
    Their comments made me think, oh ya.
    IMG_20180721_105314.jpg

    IMG_20180721_105327.jpg

    Assembling the puzzle however results in an interesting pattern.
    IMG_20180721_103500.jpg

    2M's idea of a nylon bushing or sleeve coming apart made a lot of sense to me but I think maybe this is in fact a glob of filter epoxy that broke free. Testing hardness with a pocket knife it feels the same, and requires the same amount of pressure to leave a slight dent.
    Quite the interesting puzzle. So now we're looking for hidden images in oil filter epoxy.:yikes:

    Thanks for the suggestions guys.
     
  7. Jim

    Jim Beyond the edge, is the unknown. Here be Dragons XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Yeah, once I reread where you said where you found it, that pretty much narrowed it down to sump screen. Better toss that one.
     
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  8. 5twins

    5twins XS650 Guru Top Contributor

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    I know we discussed sonic cleaners recently and I mentioned trying to clean an oil filter in one. You didn't happen to do that did you? The more I think about it, I wonder if the sonic cleaner might induce fractures in the epoxy holding the screen. I'm about to buy one and try it, so I guess we'll find out, lol.
     
  9. robinc

    robinc Member of the 'yellow meter gang' Top Contributor

    Ya I'll do a J-B Weld patch on one of the old OEM sump filters I have kicking around Jim.

    Actually, yes I did 5twins. This is the third oil change I have done since the rebuild. Used the U/S cleaner on the first one to try it out.
    So rather than just heat stress cracks on the epoxy, maybe the cleaner did that?

    Cleaning the sump plate a few minutes ago, I found this wadded up in a corner. A couple of the bits are magnetic, the rest are aluminum. Some of the black material feels more fibrous than rubber. Guess it will take a couple more oil changes to keep flushing everything out, or see if it's new?

    IMG_20180721_122755.jpg
     
  10. 5twins

    5twins XS650 Guru Top Contributor

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    Yes, maybe the sonic cleaner did that. Oh boy, I'm a bit leery about sticking a filter in the thing now, lol. It could be even worse on a JB Weld repaired one if it cracked that stuff up. That's a big patch.
     
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  11. robinc

    robinc Member of the 'yellow meter gang' Top Contributor

    I can't think a U/S cleaner would actually break down this epoxy, it's pretty hard, but maybe it could.

    I did some digging through old pics and just so happens I have this one of this spot on the filter taken at tear down time. There's 2400 miles on this filter from last year and those cracks were there then. I'm thinking either they are heat related or a break down of bad epoxy.

    IMG_20180427_164506~2.jpg

    Today's pic again.

    IMG_20180721_105314.jpg
     
  12. 5twins

    5twins XS650 Guru Top Contributor

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    If you examine one of these filters, you often find blobs or "drips" of epoxy elsewhere besides just at the edge of the screening. Apparently they do kind of a messy job putting them together. I think I even see a couple small drops on the screen in your older pic above. That assortment of chunks you found doesn't look like it came from along an edge anywhere. It may have been a big blob from the interior, a big "drip" that missed the edge and was just semi stuck to the metal plate on the top or bottom.
     
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  13. TwoManyXS1Bs

    TwoManyXS1Bs BBQ Hunter Top Contributor

    Great pics and sleuthing there, Rob.

    Here's some lousy pics of the convoluted path from the sump filter to the oil pump.

    XS650-OilPump-Inlet01.jpg XS650-OilPump-Inlet02.jpg XS650-OilPump-Inlet03.jpg

    The ID of that sump supply gallery is about 13mm (1/2").
    So, yeah, those pieces can certainly work their way into the pump.

    I'd be wanting to pull the oilpump and flush all those galleries, see if anything else still settin' in there. And inspect the pump.
    Gerotor_Animation.gif
    But, that's just me being me...
     
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  14. robinc

    robinc Member of the 'yellow meter gang' Top Contributor

    Thanks 2M, great info.

    Sure can't hurt, will have a look.
     
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  15. TwoManyXS1Bs

    TwoManyXS1Bs BBQ Hunter Top Contributor

    Have you thought about carving a notch on your handgrip for every time the right cover is pulled?
     
  16. robinc

    robinc Member of the 'yellow meter gang' Top Contributor

  17. TwoManyXS1Bs

    TwoManyXS1Bs BBQ Hunter Top Contributor

    I wouldn't have a handgrip at all if I did that... :D
     
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  18. robinc

    robinc Member of the 'yellow meter gang' Top Contributor

    OK, pulled the case (that didn't take long) and took the oil pump apart. All's good. No more bits and pieces and no damage to the pump or rotor. That isn't damage on the right lobe, just a funny oil reflection.

    IMG_20180723_124452.jpg

    IMG_20180723_130526.jpg

    Flushed out all passages with mineral spirits and compressed air. All was clear. But now I know for sure.

    Patched up a couple of sump filters using 5twins example. Used some scrap aluminum flashing material.

    IMG_20180723_102325.jpg IMG_20180723_110433.jpg IMG_20180723_110826.jpg IMG_20180723_151610.jpg

    I'll let these sit over night before I install one, add oil and stir.

    But dangit anyways. Had to put on a new case gasket this time.

    I need to start doing this now so I can keep track of how many trips I can get out of a gasket!

    Oh, and, I Hate oily fingerprints on a polished case!
     
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  19. Mailman

    Mailman Hardly a Guru Top Contributor

    That’s a very nice repair on those filters. You say that’s a 5Twins design? I must’ve missed that.
    Well by golly it should all be good now! I hope you don’t have to pull that cover again until you wear that clutch out!
    But with THREE 650’s now, you may never wear that clutch out!
    Good luck buddy!
     
  20. robinc

    robinc Member of the 'yellow meter gang' Top Contributor

    Haha, thanks Bob.

    Yes found some pics of some of 5twins repairs so I followed suit. If the screen is not torn too bad he just patches with JB-weld, if the screen is missing or too badly compromised as mine were, he adds a plate.

    Maybe now I can get back to them other ones fer a bit. :)
     

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