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Painting Tins. No really...

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by Jim, Dec 6, 2019.

  1. Candy green and white a la XS1

    10 vote(s)
    33.3%
  2. Candy gold and white a la XS1

    12 vote(s)
    40.0%
  3. Candy red and white a la XS2

    8 vote(s)
    26.7%
  1. YamadudeXS650C

    YamadudeXS650C Central New York XS650 XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    I'm very, very careful when I buy an item like that, but I wouldn't have thought to look for such a hole, either.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2020
    Raymondo, MaxPete and Jim like this.
  2. MaxPete

    MaxPete Lucille, Betty & Demi - I suggest but THEY decide. XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Yeah, I’m still puzzled about that hole. I bought that tank two or three years ago and squirrelled it away for this project - but I never saw that ding-danged hole.
     
    Paul Sutton and Jim like this.
  3. Mailman

    Mailman Hardly a Guru Top Contributor

    FA2BBCA9-4280-48F6-A387-5098414B442D.jpeg Atta boy Winston! Victory goes to the persistent! :thumbsup:
     
    Paul Sutton, MaxPete and Jim like this.
  4. Raymondo

    Raymondo XS650 rider, fettler, setting out on a journey XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    You got that right - top marks for persistence. As well as ingenuity & range of skills.

    :popcorn:
     
    Jim, MaxPete and Paul Sutton like this.
  5. Gordon in nc

    Gordon in nc XS650 Addict XS650.com Supporter

    Pete.......I wasn’t looking for a pat on the back, I just feel really bad that tank had a weak spot. I didn’t see it but now I’ve learned ( never too old) how and where to check for them next time. The results are beautiful. Jim is a wizard and it’s nice to be able to follow along. Thumbs up to him for taking the time to include us. This site.....absolutely the best bike site I visit....so much information and such a great search function. I have had lots of questions and 95% of them I’ve been able to find the answer by just searching. Priceless. Pete, can’t wait to see your bike once it’s finished. I’m “Green” with envy.

    We’re good so far here in my part of the world. Hope everybody else is too. Stay safe and healthy.
     
  6. MaxPete

    MaxPete Lucille, Betty & Demi - I suggest but THEY decide. XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Great to hear Gordon - stay safe and healthy!

    Pete
     
    Jim, Gordon in nc, GLJ and 1 other person like this.
  7. Jim

    Jim Beyond the edge, is the unknown. Here be Dragons XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Pete's cafe tank.... Grrrr......
    Yesterday was 'slosh the primer on the inside day.' Mixed up about 1-1/2 pints, poured it in, taped up the hole and shook vigorously. Poured it off and looked inside about 15-20 min later. The stuff is so thin it runs off the high spots before it sets. Knew that would happen. As it cures, the next coat sticks pretty good, so... poured the pint back in, shook, drained and checked in about 15 min. Same thing.... still wet. Hmmm.... been 30-45 min. The first coat should have took by now... it's a 15 min tack free time. Repeated the process... same result. Insanity right..;) This went on all day. Finally about dark, I sloshed some thinner in there to clean it out and called it a day. Figured I misread my mixing cup so I'll start over fresh today.

    Today. Mixed some more up paying particular attention to mixing the right ratio. Also poured some on a piece of metal as a test coupon. Poured, shook, drained... waited 30 min. still wet. Checked the coupon... it's dry... well, tack free dry anyway, just like it's supposed to be. OK.. so there's nothing wrong with the primer... hmmm... Ain't this a pickle. Epoxy is epoxy damnit... It dries by a chemical reaction. Mix the two chemicals together and it goes to cookin'. Hell, it should even dry in deep space. What am I missing here? :umm: Lesse... two parts, base and hardener... thinned with solvents so it's sprayable.
    Hmmm... solvents...

    light bulb minions.gif

    Ooops... wrong light bulb...

    light bulb.gif


    So... ponderin' that maybe the solvents aren't evaporating out of the paint because of saturation, I stuck a blowgun in the tank and regulated the air down to just a gentle summer breeze. came back 15 min later and stuck my finger in... and it was tacked over. Bingo!! Sloshed it 3 more times and we're done.
    I guess any time you try something new there's a bit of a learning curve. :smoke:


    IMG_20200327_193929.jpg

    IMG_20200327_204532.jpg
     
  8. MaxPete

    MaxPete Lucille, Betty & Demi - I suggest but THEY decide. XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Hmmmmm....maybe I should have called her something other than Demi....

    She’s being ugly and getting harder to love every day.....
    17A2622B-93A4-47E3-8E78-5EB1EEA86C74.jpeg

    Good save Jim - and thanks for sticking at it.
    Pete
     
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  9. Paul Sutton

    Paul Sutton Buckhorns on XV1000SE Top Contributor

    Paint Drying: An epoxy coating dries/curers by chemical reaction. If you assume the reaction depends on the concentration of epoxy and concentration of amine curing agent then we get the rate following a squared law. Therefore the rate is very slow while the coating is still diluted by solvent. With the tank being a confined space solvent evaporation is very slow (diffusion depends on the inverse of distance from the vent hole) so the paint stays diluted for a long time because of a poor evaporation rate. Your observation is correct that introducing a gentle breeze improves the cure rate because you has speed up evaporation. I have an epoxy primer and if I mix it and leave it sealed it is still liquid the next day, but if sprayed it is cured.

    I have used ProXL 2k isocyanate clear in a can and on 16 - 20 Celsius days it will still spray 2 days later and give good petrol resistance. Again, the reaction rate is just very slow while diluted.
     
  10. gggGary

    gggGary Stop that! XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Hair dryer on low?
     
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  11. Paul Sutton

    Paul Sutton Buckhorns on XV1000SE Top Contributor

    Perhaps hang the tank upside down so the heavy vapors fall out??
     
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  12. fredintoon

    fredintoon Fred Hill, S'toon. Top Contributor

    Hi Jim,
    Kudos on that fantastic resurrection job.
     
    gggGary, MaxPete, Mailman and 2 others like this.
  13. Jim

    Jim Beyond the edge, is the unknown. Here be Dragons XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Tech tip:
    I think all old tanks have these...

    seam1.jpg

    seam2.jpg


    Yeah... the little dings on the seams in the front. You can tap 'em out with a hammer, but sometimes they're in a tight tunnel like this one. Suppose I could still get to it, but there's a much easier way. An 8" crescent wrench. Put it dead center on the ding and gently bend it back into place.


    seam3.jpg


    The entire operation from start to finish took less than 30 sec. It would have taken me that long to decide where to hit it and how hard with a hammer... and then more time tappin' some more 'cause you didn't hit hard enough... or tappin' the other way 'cause you hit it too hard. The wrench is quick and easy 'cause you can see it bending back as you pull and know exactly when to stop. Works every time.

    seam5.jpg


    Tanks all sanded down ready for bondo. I think it was Paul that said to leave the factory finish and paint over it. That's good advice and my preferred way of doing it. But (ain't there always a but) that's conditional on the original finish being in good shape to start. Anywhere there's a deep scratch, it has to be sanded to feather the edges so it disappears. So the ability to do that is dependent on the number of scratches. There's a point of diminishing returns when each scratch takes about 3-5 min. to feather. I was up to about 30 scratches when I quit counting... and a lot of those were to the base metal with rust showing. So, I was looking at 3-4 hrs of feathering vs. about an hour with a 3" brown rolok disk. No contest. Down to shiny metal and on to the next step
    So yeah, back in charted waters... no dragons today. :D
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2020
  14. Jim

    Jim Beyond the edge, is the unknown. Here be Dragons XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    I think I got 'em all... :D

    IMG_20200328_215200.jpg
     
  15. MaxPete

    MaxPete Lucille, Betty & Demi - I suggest but THEY decide. XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Well, I’m sure glad that series of disasters seems to have ended Jim.

    Fingers crossed....and knock on wood
    D7461B6C-2077-4A49-B626-01BDA8E6D8BF.gif
     
  16. Bewarethemoon

    Bewarethemoon XS650 Addict XS650.com Supporter

    Is the solution here as simple as just using body filler to cover all of the little dings?
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2020
    Greyandridin and Jim like this.
  17. thuban

    thuban Horse Scratcher Top Contributor

    ...Simple as using body filler...
    Body filler ( Bondo or the like) is a pain to work with for very small dings unless you have worked with it a lot! Bondo is tough and provides a good base. I like to use 3M Acryl-Red Glazing Putty which comes in a tube. No mixing and fast drying. Fills the small dents and scratches. Apply it, wet sand smooth, light primer and then wet sand with a sanding block, 400 paper. You will see every ding as a low place the block didn't touch. Use a little plastic applicator. Some people try and put too much at a time and then have a lot of work taking it back down.
    let me pick on Jim, for a minute. He has worked with this stuff a lot. By the humidity, temperature, he just knows how much hardener he'll need to mix with the amount of filler he's going to use in a certain amount of time before the filler gets too hard. He makes it look easy but there is a learning curve. Glazing Putty or what I call "spot putty" is easier to use but won't handle big dented areas. I use "Bondo" on those and then the Glazing putty. There are so many youtubes and products it's hard to know which to use and everybody has their favorites.
     
  18. Bewarethemoon

    Bewarethemoon XS650 Addict XS650.com Supporter

    I didn’t mean take anything away from the process of successfully applying filler, I’ve never done it myself so I have no idea really! I just wondered if Jim was pulling the dings out by some means.

    Seems like I’ll be doing a lot of research into applying and working body filler when I get to that stage.

    Daniel.
     
  19. thuban

    thuban Horse Scratcher Top Contributor

    Ohhh, ( Damn, I'm getting old) I don't know if Jim does but I use a dent puller. Start with a clean painted and dented tank. You apply "hot glue" to a tool tip and stick it in the dent. It cools and you slip the puller on the tool and "POP". May take many times and you may not see it doing anything at first but it will. Have to use alcohol as a release agent to get the used hot glue off the tool and tank. Then you do it again. You'll know when its done all it's going to do. I heat the tank with a heat gun but careful, it will burn the paint. The smooth paint gives a better stick to the hot glue than bare metal , I think, but it'll work both ways. Then I use aircraft paint stripper instead of a mechanical means. I never use power tools. Lots of youtubes on the pullers.
    Hope this helps.
    Thu
     
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  20. Sir Real Ed

    Sir Real Ed XS650 Enthusiast

    Great thread gents (randomly and apathetically assuming all a'all's gender).

    I'm learning some stuff. Good to have an old brain trust available when one's own old brain goes into hibernate mode.

    All ya gotta do is remember some passwords........
     
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