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PAMCO Ignition install troubles...HELP.

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by bmfakler, Aug 17, 2013.

  1. bmfakler

    bmfakler XS650 Member

    Hey guys,

    So I bought a brand new pamcopete ignition and hughshandbuilt pma recently and just attempted to install the pamco today.

    I took the advance rod out and have the entire left side complete (sensor plate in place etc.). Now, I have a 1979 special...do i need to replace the right side bushing (s) with the copper piece and washers included in the kit or can i just leave them as is, without messing up what looks to be the right stock set up?

    Also wiring...I have connected the e-advancer to the sensor plate and the dual output coil (mikes #17-6903). Now do I simply connect each side of the coil to the battery terminals and ground with the black wire to negative side of the battery? Also what are some ways of putting the coil elsewhere so I can actually get a seat back on?

    Lastly, I really really would like to keep the stock keyed ignition set up (no toggle of course) with the kill switch if possible...how would i go with that?

    Sorry guys...I was very ambitious when ordering this and had no idea what I was getting myself into with the wiring nightmare this can be for a complete novice. I have no idea what I am doing but I am hungry for advice and willing to learn... Any and all help is appreciated.

    I basically need a how to install and wire a pamco ignition for dummies book.

    Thanks!

    Posted via Mobile
     
  2. As long as you wire the Pamco to your kill switch that will be a good sorce of power for the ignition.The PMA will be wired seperate I have read some guy's are wireing them with and with out battery's.I think if possible you will get a better start of the engine with a battery.:bike:
     
  3. retiredgentleman

    retiredgentleman XS650 Guru Top Contributor

    The Pamco web site has Installation Instructions:
    http://www.yamahaxs650.com/
    Read them carefully.

    Here are a couple of pics. The one pic shows how the right side should look. You have to remove the ATU fly-weights/springs/slotted disc/backing plate/lock nut etc.

    The other pic shows how the wiring should connect.
     

    Attached Files:

  4. jd750ace

    jd750ace Front Toward Enemy

    You need to remove the flyweight setup. The copper cap does you the favor of getting rid of the flinging and flailing parts, ensures the little locking pins in the shaft are engaged with the cam (this is what keeps your Pamco rotor clocked correctly to the cam) and also ensures that the rotor will be an appropriate distance from the pickup plate for good reliable ignition. You also need to follow the directions to the letter and remove the advancer rod, clean it, install the copper cap and washers per instructions on the right end of the rod BEFORE you reinstall it, and don't forget to lube the advancer rod before you install it back through the cam. I used Molybdenum Disulfide grease. Just a light coat on the contact areas.

    Come back with anything else that confuses you. Make no assumptions.
     
  5. XSLeo

    XSLeo XS650 Guru Top Contributor

    Following the install instructions to the letter will get your bike running well. Try any short cuts and you will get problems.
    I printed out the install instructions so I would have them handy.
    For power to the Pamco and coil use the red/white wire that sends power to the stock coil. This red/white wire carries power from the engine stop switch. As in the diagram RG posted. Power from the engine stop switch to both the Pamco and coil.
    Leo
     
  6. bmfakler

    bmfakler XS650 Member

    So If I have this correct, the picture of the right side that gentleman posted is the completed picture? I'll just completely remove the fly weights and everything?

    So many other instructions are different due to older systems being installed...I guess I can really only go off the xs650 instructions online then.
     
  7. jd750ace

    jd750ace Front Toward Enemy

    Retiredgentlman's pic is the completed installation on the right side for an E-advance Pamco ignition.
     
  8. XSLeo

    XSLeo XS650 Guru Top Contributor

    You can find the advancer removal instructions in your repair manual.
    On Pete's ignition site, www.yamahaxs650.com just reverse the advancer install instructions.
    It can be done without tearing the advancer apart. Just remove the slotted disc that engages the weights. Now loosen the nut with a hammer and punch.
    As you loosen the nut, wiggle the advancer so it comes off with the nut.
    Once removed put the disc back in place in the weights and drop it into a zip lock baggie. That way it stays clean and together.
    Then pull the rod out the points side. Remove the points cam from the rod. Install the copper cap on the rod as described in the instructions.
    Remove the points plate complete with points and such, Drop this and the points cam in the bag with the advancer. Keeps all the points stuff together.
    Now install the sensor plate in where the points were.
    On your points plate the wires have a cloth cover on them. I removed this cover off the points wires and slipped it over the wires from the sensor plate. It looks more stock that way.
    Once the sensor plate is installed put the rod with the copper cap installed on it back in the cam so the notch in the copper cap lines up on the pin the advancer lined up on. Now while holding the rod in place in the cam, slide the rotor and big washer on the rod, put on the lock washer and nut on the rod. Snug it down and torque to around 5-7 ft./lbs.
    Being careful to keep the notch on the copper cap lined up on the pin. This is important. The pin is what times the rotor to the cam. The pressure of the cap on the pin holds the pin in place.
    Now make sure that the sensor plate lines up like in the pic in the install instructions.
    This should let you start and run the engine so you can set the timing with a timing light.
    Once the timing is set at idle rev it up and watch how far over to the left the rotor mark moves. It should reach max advance about 3000 rpms. On the your 79 there is a max advance line. At 3000 rpms the advance should be at that line, never past it.
    If it is past the max advance go back to idle and turn the sensor plate to retard the timing a bit. Then recheck at 3000 rpms, keep adjusting to get the max advance at the max line. A bit shy of the line won't hurt anything.
    Leo
     
  9. jd750ace

    jd750ace Front Toward Enemy

    I re-used the wiring sleeve myself. It's silicone impregnated fiberglass, which is an excellent protector for the wires.
     
  10. XSLeo

    XSLeo XS650 Guru Top Contributor

    I wasn't sure just what the cover was made from. I think it helps protect the wires from the heat of the head. The wires do tuck in between the fins.
    Leo
     
  11. bmfakler

    bmfakler XS650 Member

    Alright guys another update!

    Everything in the cam is installed per the instructions and your advice, and it looks awesome!

    Now problem is that I have wired it up, correctly so I thought.

    Positive terminal connects no problem, however as soon as I connect the negative it sparks like a mother so I obviously stopped and believe something must be connected wrong... (Don't want to fry anything)

    So here is what I have:

    The orange and brown wire sets that come from the two stock coils are extended to come to the new dual output coil.

    They are then intertwined into one and connected to the red wire from the e-advancer, so this meaning that the 2 brown, 2 orange, and one red e-advancer wires are all connected into one single wire at the end...which is then connected into one of the prongs of the new coil...the other prong of course being taken by the single green wire of the e-advancer.

    The black e-advancer wire is connected along with the negative terminal as well.

    Now what I'm thinking is I somehow messed up by placing all orange and brown wires together into one.

    I'm on my phone working on it currently, but I'll try and post photos to aid in my setup description.
     
  12. XSLeo

    XSLeo XS650 Guru Top Contributor

    You remove the stock coils. They are not used. You just use the new dual output coil.
    When doing any wiring unhook the battery till all the wiring is done, then hook up the battery.
    Leo
     
  13. bmfakler

    bmfakler XS650 Member

    Here is the wiring set up I have...

    I know it's probably completely wrong but I have no experience in this, and scared shitless of frying the coil or pamco (I couldn't have right?)

    Again too remember I still want the ignition set up like stock no toggle etc. ...basically everything stock but just a Bette ignition system set up.
     

    Attached Files:

  14. bmfakler

    bmfakler XS650 Member

    Sorry Leo I forgot to mention the stock coils are removed! The wires that were attached to them (2 brown 2 orange) are now going to the new coil.
     
  15. bmfakler

    bmfakler XS650 Member

    Sorry my phone is struggling to upload my photos that I have of the wiring.
     

    Attached Files:

  16. bmfakler

    bmfakler XS650 Member

    Here's more sorry if they're all uploading and I'm not noticing...
     

    Attached Files:

  17. retiredgentleman

    retiredgentleman XS650 Guru Top Contributor

    This sounds confusing using brown and orange wires from the old coils. Your bike has 2 red/white wires under the gas tank. Those are the wires that previously went to the 2 single coils. One of those red/whites should connect to the red wire on the E-advancer, and the other red/white should connect to one terminal of the new coil.

    I'm not clear when you say "The black e-advancer wire is connected along with the negative terminal as well." Do you mean you connected the black from the E-advancer to a terminal on the coil? That would be wrong. The diagram I posted for you, shows the black E-advancer wire going to ground only (bare metal on frame).
     
  18. XSLeo

    XSLeo XS650 Guru Top Contributor

    Ok,out of your harness is a red white wire that hooked to the stock coils. This is the only wire that was hooked to the coils that you will use. This red/white wire is power from the stock switches.
    The orange and brown wires hooked the coils to the points. They should have been removed when you removed the points.
    You hook this red/white wire to the red wire of the Pamco and one side of the new coil.
    The green wire from the Pamco goes to the other side of the new coil.
    Black to ground.
    Leo
     
  19. retiredgentleman

    retiredgentleman XS650 Guru Top Contributor

    On the left side of your picture you have 4 wires appearing to feed power to the coil and the E-advancer. You should only have a power feed from the kill switch, via 2 red/white wires or you could just use 1 red/white if you choose. Orange, grey, red ............where are they from?
     
  20. bmfakler

    bmfakler XS650 Member

    This red and white?! And just connect to the red and to the coil...
     

    Attached Files:

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