Pamco pete

tzimmerm

tzimmerm

XS650 Junkie
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Okay, I really don’t mean to be calling pete out, I’m just curious if anyone knows anything about what might be going on with him? I ordered/paid for an e-ignition around a month ago, and emailed him after a week or so, and he said he was working on a new batch and they should “be out next Monday.” That was almost 3 weeks ago now and I havent received any replies to another email. I have also
Noticed that mikes xs doesnt have “pamco” igntion kits anymore; the ignition kits are all “xs charge” brand, but the descriptions are exactly the same, word for word, as they were when they were being sold as “Pamco.” They include what looks like pamco ignitions. What’s going on? Are they basically stealing pamco’s design and branding it their own? Selling pete’s stuff but calling it something else? I suppose if he didnt legally secure his design with a patent, it would legally be possible for a company to copy his design and sell it as their own, wouldn't it?
 
Yeah I went on Mikes and looked around as well. Looks like the same exact Pamco products they’ve always sold but with their name stuck on it. So then I wondered if Pete stopped selling things out of his own shop, went there and he’s up and running , business as usual.

My guess is he’s just allowing Mikes to put their sticker on stuff and call it theirs, for a nominal fee of course! :whistle:
 
They are confusing...........Its no wounder guys have been coming on here buying PMA charging systems and thinking and telling us they have bought an ignition system
 
Ok, to pete’s credit, I just received an email explaining that he was delayed in getting a component for the e advancer. I figured it was something like that.
 
tzimmerm said:
I suppose if he didnt legally secure his design with a patent, it would legally be possible for a company to copy his design and sell it as their own, wouldn't it?
Click to expand...
It's been a long time, but in a case like a Pamco, with no patents, especially with just a few components, the main legal protection you have is copyright on the layout of the board, as if it was artwork. If it's very simple then so is an alternate layout. If there's code involved, then that is copyrighted and can at least be made hard to read out and copy. If the person wanting to make a copy didn't have development and manufacturing then it might be cheaper to just buy them wholesale and resell them.

I was writing code for a place that made a computer accessory. One day the head of engineering came by and said one of the salesmen or distributors had dropped off his own version of the thing for us to have a look at. It looked different but worked identically. I changed a couple of connections on it and made a few keystrokes, and it entered a self-test mode that nobody knew about but me! Meaning he had ripped off our code. I never heard anything else about it. In our first hundred units or so, the device programmer wouldn't blow the device's security fuse for some reason and the project head said just send them out anyway.

One guru/philosopher from the dawn of the microprocessor age said forget about patents and make your money before the copiers appear. Patents are expensive to obtain, expensive to defend, and easy to circumvent.
 
xjwmx said:
... he had ripped off our code...
Click to expand...

We had similar issues, again long ago, competitor ICs working just like ours. Microslicing revealed die layouts that looked just like ours. One even showed the same inadvertent error left by one of our design engineers, an unused dangling trace. We started implementing unique patterns in our dies, to help detect copies, prevent counterfeiting. That practice has evolved into some rather exotic images buried in the chips, known as "chip graffiti"...

ChipGrafitti.jpg
 
TwoManyXS1Bs said:
We had similar issues, again long ago, competitor ICs working just like ours. Microslicing revealed die layouts that looked just like ours. One even showed the same inadvertent error left by one of our design engineers, an unused dangling trace. We started implementing unique patterns in our dies, to help detect copies, prevent counterfeiting. That practice has evolved into some rather exotic images buried in the chips, known as "chip graffiti"...

View attachment 120745
Click to expand...

Wow that’s really interesting and clever!
 
One time we made one thing that needed extra security, so it had a chip or two that were covered with clear epoxy and in the epoxy was mixed glitter. Then they photographed each one and kept it on file like a fingerprint.
 
Fascinating.
The Mountweazel thing caused a couple of long-dormant synapses to fire, and I was reminded of a book by Jorge Louis Borges. The book is Ficciones, a collection of short stories, and the particular story that I was reminded of is "Tlön, Uqbar, Orbis Tertius". Someone else must know what I'm talking about -- back me up -- the whole story is a page-turner of a Mountweazel...
 
OK, do we really know what's going on? Well, I bought the Pamco ignition with the built-in e-advancer about 3 months ago. It was a special sale or something without the coil. I bought the coil he suggested. Well, I am really impressed. Perfect timing and perfect advancing. That's all. I guess I'm easily impressed. If it lasts forever, I'll die happy.
 
I realized I didnt update THIS thread; I received my PAMCO E advancer ignition last Saturday. Waiting on the local parts store to get me another ngk resistor cap so I can use the little rubber boot that is supposed to insulate the wire to the cap. They are the perfect size for my red andrews coil. Lol for the extra money I spent on shipping and little odds and ends like these caps, I should have just gone with the mike’s coil and had it shipped with the wires I bought from them.
 
Yup - my Pamco with the little blue box e-advancer works perfectly. I just wish I’d known that the “built-in” model was coming - but that’s OK.
 
Yes, the all-in-one is so beautifully simple and compact. The whole ignition system condensed in one component, completely hidden and tucked away behind a stock cover. 3 wires. Gotta love it.
 
Last edited:
MaxPete said:
Yup - my Pamco with the little blue box e-advancer works perfectly. I just wish I’d known that the “built-in” model was coming - but that’s OK.
Click to expand...
Hey, shuda, wuda, cuda. I'm sure they both work the same. But, there's just one thing... it says not to leave ignition on if the bike is not running. Ok, how long? Should i have my finger on the starter button as i turn on the ignition? I'm just a little leary about it each time i start er up.
 
Pete addresses this somewhere here in the forum, but that recommendation was based on his experience with a particular coil, and the time was 12 minutes I believe, and the result was the coil frying. I’ve been reading threads on this forum about pamco ignitions literally years longer than I’ve owned one. Just don’t walk away from your bike with the ignition on and you should be fine. P.S.- I wouldn’t use the starter any more than you really have to. Unless you have a bad back or leg, kick her over! With a Pamco installed, she should start first kick every time anyway! And the street cred.....
 
The e-advance models have cut offs to prevent key on but not started failures
Automatic kill switch keeps coil off until starting.
But stall the motor and leave the iggy on and you can let the magic smoke out.
 

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