Pamco/PMA noob on what to do

[MATEYS]

Hey guys, long time lurker first time builder and I've got a few questions to ask.

So the electrical on my 78 is total garbage and am looking into a PMA/Pamco. It'll be easier if I just list them numerically.

Warning, am a noob

1.) do I need to rephase my engine for this upgrade.

2.) what electronics do I eliminate? There are 2 silver rounded rectangles on each side, a black box under the battery, a plastic silver box on top of the battery(not fuses) and round starter relay I think is what it's called.

3.) is there any wire diagram of a Pamco/PMA install with all other electronic elements left in tact.

If you think you can explain and/or tell me I'm missing something a reply is greatly appreciated.

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[figure8]

No, you don't need to rephrase. I'm short on time, post more later.

 

[650Skull]

Asking if you need to do a Re-phase to upgrade to a PMA/Pamco shows that you have no idea and have not done any research at all.

It is very important for you to do some research at least, so when you get answers to your questions you at least have a basic understanding of what is going on.

To answers your basic question of do you need to re-phase for a PMA/Pamco, the simple answer is..... no.

How do you know your electrics are "Total Garbage". If it is, then a PMA won't solve this issue.

Go to the Tech Menu and read, read, and read again. There is all the information in there you will need to solve all of your issues/questions. When you have read a fair bit and have got a basic idea about some of the things you want to know then ask a bunch of questions and the help, (yes there will be a lot of help if people see you are helping yourself), you receive will be better understood

Use google search, (top right), and ask a question and that will bring up many threads

In the Garage there is a list of areas that threads are linked to, choose one and there will be a bunch of threads. I find Google search better but all avenues should be utilized.

Look for an original wiring diagram in the electrical section of the Tech menu and one of them will-have a menu of the electrical parts you are asking about. Here is a link to wiring diagrams
Scroll down to post #7 for wiring diagrams and click onto 77D, has a good clear numbered menu for electrical parts and relays.
http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=61

 

[retiredgentleman]

As Skull said, your lack of knowledge is really weak.

Do you even know what a re-phase is? Do you know how the stock engine's ignition and charging system work?

If you don't understand the basics, how do you know what changes you might want to do to the bike?

Is your bike a standard or a special? You should not jump into buying a lot of parts, until you ride the bike for a short period, to get familiar with how it works.

It would be helpful if you posted some pictures, so everyone can see what you are starting with. Does the engine run?

 

[MATEYS]

I got my 78 standard Xs running but it was not charging and miss firing. I made sure everything was grounded and all connections were clean. I rebuilt the worn BS38s and did all the checks and adjustments for my bike via manual. Now I'm at the point where it would be best to get a PMA/Pamco. I've searched thread here and cannot find anything on what to delete and what to keep when installing them. Does this help?

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[650Skull]

You are determined to get a PMA/Pamco. The Pamco is a good upgrade but the PMA is a different matter. I won't go into the reasons why because i don't think you want to know

Miss-firing can be caused by a number of things and the first thing to check is the battery. There are numerous threads on suspecting the carbs and the Battery has been the culprit

I typed "electrical components needed for a PMA" into Google search this is the page that come up
http://www.xs650.com/forum/searchgoogle.php?cx=partner-pub-9696397702584771%3A6nvbm3frz9z&cof=FORID%3A9&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=electrical+componants+needed+for+a+PMA&sa=Search&siteurl=www.xs650.com%2Fforum%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D45455&ref=www.xs650.com%2Fforum%2Flogin.php%3Fdo%3Dlogin&ss=12491j5588415j39

The wiring diagram page i linked to earlier has a good wiring diagram the shows different combinations for the different ignitions and on the first page there is every conceivable diagram for just about every situation.

You have been using a Manual and in conjunction with the diagrams i linked to you will be able to identify and name the electrical components instead of "that roundish silver thing" or "That thing under the battery". I thought you would have found this out when you were tracing and cleaning the connections.

Questions.......

1, Have you load tested your battery to make sure it is putting out the correct voltage, or is it a Brand new one

2, Have you tested your Stator or rotor to see what is causing your lack of charging.

3, Have you tested the voltage output with a voltmeter.

4, have you checked the brushes are not the culprit.

 

[retiredgentleman]

You have to give more information. When was the last time the engine was running normally, and was it ever charging fully, or did you just buy this bike and no nothing of its history?

The Pamco and a PMA are unrelated parts. The Pamco ignition is a good addition to these bikes, and if you buy one be sure to get the E-advancer option.

I don't know why you would be wanting to spend money on a PMA, if you have not done any testing to see if the stock alternator can be used. The stock alternators are well built parts. It may be as simple as replacing the brushes, and cleaning the slip rings.

So, what is the "total garbage" part of the electrics? Can you post a picture?

As Skull said........................have you measured the length of the brushes?

 

[650Skull]

PMA wiring thread
http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40336

 

[warrenlevihursh]

Save yourself some money and replace the bad electrical parts with oem components. I have a 78 running all original stator, RR, rotor, coils, points etc. It is very reliable and runs like a top. I would figure out what your current problems are before you compound them new, expensive parts. Just my 2 cents.

 

[XSLeo]

On the misfiring, the 78 has points. Have you cleaned or replaced the points? Properly gapped and timed them?
The condensers could be part of the misfiring too.
there is a Charging System Trouble Shooting thread on here. You may find that with a bit if testing you can fix what's wrong with the stock alternator for very little cash outlay. A multi-meter and some time might cure your "Total Garbage Electrical System."
There is also a thread on here that describes how the system works from the time you turn the key. A worth while read.
Leo