Parts reconnaissance is NEEDED!!! HELP PLEASE!

[member28833]

To have to work under the bike is not a deal breaker. Especially if you are young.
The Sump plate scraping goes okay assuming the gasket is stuck to the removed plate and not the engine underside.
If a lift is not avaliable (not me) a little extra head room can be created by standing the bike up on a flat 2×6 cross inline with the center stand. And then one under the front wheel. Block the front wheel with a bucket or gallon of paint too.
Just do it

 

[G_YamTech_314]

Yup, a Royal Pain.
My solution is to hoist the bike above my head (I have a tall garage ceiling with an electric hoist) to work directly at it.
But our late friend, Robin C. described leaning the bike way, way, way over on it's side and somehow easily propping it there, to expose the sump.
Maybe someone can come up with a photo of this "lean over" method.

I'll work on it. I'm gonna lean it over next time. But for now I decided to lay on the ground. More pictures to come, I finally got around to draining the oil. I'm gonna order some new filters and work at it some more later on.

 

[5twins]

It's usually not an issue any more after that initial clean-up, as long as you don't put gasket sealer on the new gasket. But you shouldn't have to. If you get the mating surfaces properly cleaned, just a gasket will seal up fine. I do oil mine with motor oil. That makes them come back off easily with no sticking. I usually get near half a dozen uses (remove/install) out of one of these gaskets before it's used up to the point of needing to be replaced. It'll warn you when that time is approaching. It'll weep and/or start sweating a bit of oil as it's approaching the end of it's useful service life. When it does that, I'll change it next time.

 

[G_YamTech_314]

Just some pics of the days events. Gonna post it on my build thread, but since we are on the topic... If your situation looked like mine, what would your next step be? Thinking I'll probably buy new filters, and reinforce the brand new sump filter simply because it's necessary, and starting from new seems best... Not to mention. Lots of metal shavings in my smaller filter... I didn't see any cam chain tensioner bits though, unless they're the black bits mixed in with the metal chunks... Thoughts everyone? I also want to point out some sort of "stress crack on the right side of the motor right in front of the sump plate, bottom cooling fin piece. Is it something to worry about? Or should I go about my days? Pic of left side seems crack free. Used for comparison.

Bonus pic of my bike, followed by my helper. She likes to read a book while asking questions. "What's that?" "The oil looks gritty" "is that normal" "are you sure you're not missing a bolt?" She's good company while I'm elbow deep in sludge. Anyone thirsty for a half gallon of oil?!?

For the last pic, did anybody find a good ramp or system they use to get the bike out of their shed or garage? I don't like constantly scraping the exhaust on the lip of my dad's shed to get it to the driveway...

 

[YamadudeXS650C]

Ramp: a 2 x 8 x 8 board would work. support it by a chunk of wood in the center.

Stress crack? probably just a casting mark. Ignore it.

You could clean up (real good), dry thorooughly, spray with brake cleaner, dry again, and then reinforce that sump filter you got with some JB Weld. It will work fine.

The shavings and bits you found are somewhat concerning, but some might have "come from the factory", as others have found. I suggest you clean it all up, button it back up and add oil. Run it for 500 - 800 miles, and then drop the sump again and see what you got.

Have some fun on the bike.

 

[G_YamTech_314]

Ramp: a 2 x 8 x 8 board would work. support it by a chunk of wood in the center.

Stress crack? probably just a casting mark. Ignore it.

You could clean up (real good), dry thorooughly, spray with brake cleaner, dry again, and then reinforce that sump filter you got with some JB Weld. It will work fine.

The shavings and bits you found are somewhat concerning, but some might have "come from the factory", as others have found. I suggest you clean it all up, button it back up and add oil. Run it for 500 - 800 miles, and then drop the sump again and see what you got.

Have some fun on the bike.

Well then in that case, I'm glad I m not the only one who thinks I should ignore the shavings for now. The way I see it, it's definitely gonna need an overhaul next season, but why not at least get to riding it for a season first? Pretty much all that's left now is a needle valve seat, and needle valve, then a clutch cable, fresh oil, tune up,chain and sprockets, tires, and front brakes... Seems like a lot but it could be a lot worse...

 

[G_YamTech_314]

I should add that there was material from the smaller filter that had ripped off as well. As silly as it may seem to some, this is one of those things I'd rather do from a brand new filter. I figure I can just make a plate from aluminum and install it onto the new filter that way I never have to worry if I sealed it properly. May still try and fix old sump filter after seeing how it coeans up, the hole isn't THAT bad. But still just kinda want it to have two new filters to rule out any strain or issues I find.

The ONLY hesitation I have with new filters is that if there's anything still in the motor it will clog the new filters. I think I wanna fill it with kerosene, taket the spark plugs out, crank the motor over a few times and really let it work thru and clean everything out. If I do that, is it still a good idea to run a filter set up? I'd imagine it will catch debris rather than let it continuously cycle through the motor?

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

Looks like you've just got a lot of ancient sludge, from years of neglect.

I'd say clean up the sump plate and fix screens, add fresh oil, ride/run it for awhile 'till it gets hot, then dump oil while still hot. Repeat.

Now you should have a cleaner initial starting point for your diagnostics...

 

[YamadudeXS650C]

I should add that there was material from the smaller filter that had ripped off as well. As silly as it may seem to some, this is one of those things I'd rather do from a brand new filter. I figure I can just make a plate from aluminum and install it onto the new filter that way I never have to worry if I sealed it properly. May still try and fix old sump filter after seeing how it coeans up, the hole isn't THAT bad. But still just kinda want it to have two new filters to rule out any strain or issues I find.

The ONLY hesitation I have with new filters is that if there's anything still in the motor it will clog the new filters. I think I wanna fill it with kerosene, taket the spark plugs out, crank the motor over a few times and really let it work thru and clean everything out. If I do that, is it still a good idea to run a filter set up? I'd imagine it will catch debris rather than let it continuously cycle through the motor?

No need to flush it out. All the bad stuff naturaly ends up at the sump filter.

 

[YamadudeXS650C]

I should add that there was material from the smaller filter that had ripped off as well. As silly as it may seem to some, this is one of those things I'd rather do from a brand new filter. I figure I can just make a plate from aluminum and install it onto the new filter that way I never have to worry if I sealed it properly. May still try and fix old sump filter after seeing how it coeans up, the hole isn't THAT bad. But still just kinda want it to have two new filters to rule out any strain or issues I find.

The ONLY hesitation I have with new filters is that if there's anything still in the motor it will clog the new filters. I think I wanna fill it with kerosene, taket the spark plugs out, crank the motor over a few times and really let it work thru and clean everything out. If I do that, is it still a good idea to run a filter set up? I'd imagine it will catch debris rather than let it continuously cycle through the motor?

If the smaller filter is torn, you could get a new one or wrap it with filter paper as gggGary suggests.

 

[gggGary]

Not me, but I kinda like the idea!

 

[5twins]

Yes, what you've found is pretty typical for one of these. Most weren't cared for like they should have been. Oil changes were not frequent enough, and filter cleanings even less so. Looks like your sump plate still has the original gasket bonded to it with Yamabond from the factory. I run into lots of them like that. Several applications of paint stripper will be needed to get that off without a struggle. It wouldn't surprise me if the drain plug seal rings are the originals too, mashed so flat and worn out they no longer help much. Because of that, you often find the drain plugs so tight they're difficult to remove. There's 2 by the way, and you should remove both. Most of the oil will come out the first one but a couple more ounces will come out the second.

Yes, save that old sump filter and patch it. I agree, just replace the little side filter if it's torn. That's not very common and you shouldn't have to worry about it happening again. Yes, do several quick oil changes and filter cleanings. That will flush the motor for you, but it could take some time. It was several thousand miles before my filters started coming out relatively clean. This is a pretty crude old motor and design. A few metal chips in the filters almost seems to be the norm. I think the commonly grinding starter contributes to this. Here's my side filter from my last oil change. relatively clean but still a few little bits of junk. I've come to accept this as being the norm .....

As far as oil goes, for your quick flushings, I wouldn't use anything fancy. I'd recommend the Walmart in-house brand, Super Tech. You can get it in 5 quart jugs. The 650 takes a bit over 2 quarts per change so a jug will give you two changes .....

 

[fredintoon]

I should add that there was material from the smaller filter that had ripped off as well. As silly as it may seem to some, this is one of those things I'd rather do from a brand new filter. I figure I can just make a plate from aluminum and install it onto the new filter that way I never have to worry if I sealed it properly. May still try and fix old sump filter after seeing how it coeans up, the hole isn't THAT bad. But still just kinda want it to have two new filters to rule out any strain or issues I find.

The ONLY hesitation I have with new filters is that if there's anything still in the motor it will clog the new filters. I think I wanna fill it with kerosene, taket the spark plugs out, crank the motor over a few times and really let it work thru and clean everything out. If I do that, is it still a good idea to run a filter set up? I'd imagine it will catch debris rather than let it continuously cycle through the motor?

Hi YamTech,
us old farts used to use flushing oil but equal parts El-Cheapo engine oil & kerosene works too.
Install the new strainers ("filters" implies more debris entrapment than wire mesh can do) Pour in the oil/kerosene mix
and run the engine ON IDLE until the pipes are too hot to touch. Allow to cool. Drain. Inspect. Repeat if necessary.

 

[G_YamTech_314]

Yes, what you've found is pretty typical for one of these. Most weren't cared for like they should have been. Oil changes were not frequent enough, and filter cleanings even less so. Looks like your sump plate still has the original gasket bonded to it with Yamabond from the factory. I run into lots of them like that. Several applications of paint stripper will be needed to get that off without a struggle. It wouldn't surprise me if the drain plug seal rings are the originals too, mashed so flat and worn out they no longer help much. Because of that, you often find the drain plugs so tight they're difficult to remove. There's 2 by the way, and you should remove both. Most of the oil will come out the first one but a couple more ounces will come out the second.

Yes, save that old sump filter and patch it. I agree, just replace the little side filter if it's torn. That's not very common and you shouldn't have to worry about it happening again. Yes, do several quick oil changes and filter cleanings. That will flush the motor for you, but it could take some time. It was several thousand miles before my filters started coming out relatively clean. This is a pretty crude old motor and design. A few metal chips in the filters almost seems to be the norm. I think the commonly grinding starter contributes to this. Here's my side filter from my last oil change. relatively clean but still a few little bits of junk. I've come to accept this as being the norm .....

As far as oil goes, for your quick flushings, I wouldn't use anything fancy. I'd recommend the Walmart in-house brand, Super Tech. You can get it in 5 quart jugs. The 650 takes a bit over 2 quarts per change so a jug will give you two changes .....

That's some useful info. Perhaps metal chips can be cut down by kick starting? I'll have to see what's up once I get a few parts and some warm days. Should I let it run with the kerosene/oil mix? Or would it he better not letting it start up? Lower rpms would he less damaging but not as efficient... I would just like to get one good season out of the bike prior to a full teardown on the motor.

 

[fredintoon]

That's some useful info. Perhaps metal chips can be cut down by kick starting? I'll have to see what's up once I get a few parts and some warm days. Should I let it run with the kerosene/oil mix? Or would it he better not letting it start up? Lower rpms would he less damaging but not as efficient... I would just like to get one good season out of the bike prior to a full teardown on the motor.

Hi YamTech,
come to think, pulling the plugs and towing the bike in gear for a mile or so would work better than running the thing because there's WAY less strain on the motor and flushing oil as not the best of lubricants.

 

[GLJ]

Hi YamTech,
come to think, pulling the plugs and towing the bike in gear for a mile or so would work better than running the thing because there's WAY less strain on the motor and flushing oil as not the best of lubricants.

I don't think there would be much strain on the engine idling compared to the physical risk to rider and bike from towing.

 

[GLJ]

If you want to do an engine flush buy a cheap light weight straight weight oil. May even want to add some snake oil. Run bike on center stand until engine cases are medium warm to touch. Shut down and drain.

 

[fredintoon]

I don't think there would be much strain on the engine idling compared to the physical risk to rider and bike from towing.

Hi GLJ,
nobody said "Don't be real careful if you do that!" , Eh?
Or run the bike down a hill and bring it back up in a truck?
Or spin it over on one of those race bike starter thingies?

 

[GLJ]

Hi GLJ,
nobody said "Don't be real careful if you do that!" , Eh?
Or run the bike down a hill and bring it back up in a truck?
Or spin it over on one of those race bike starter thingies?

Fred
I just cringe at the thought of towing a bike. I know the right ways and wrong ways of doing it. No matter how you do it anything over walking speed is damn dangerous. When I rode dirt bikes sometimes if someone blew an engine we would push them down a road. A little safer but not good. Pusher rider leg out straight against muffler of bike being pushed. Ready to get on brakes or veer off at first sign of trouble.

 

[G_YamTech_314]

Hi GLJ,
nobody said "Don't be real careful if you do that!" , Eh?
Or run the bike down a hill and bring it back up in a truck?
Or spin it over on one of those race bike starter thingies?

I was literally just thinking ya know... Crank the starter without spark plugs in... Doesn't put much strain on the battery when there's zero compression. Still circulates the oil, and I can stand in one spot!! Although, with what 5Twins said, I might actually damage the starter gear by doing that. I do not hear any grinding when my starter turns over though, feels normal. Sounds normal. So I'm not sure what approach I'll take yet. I just know I'm not happy with all those shavings.