Project… “Fast & Flowâ€

Small update; I took it for a ride Tuesday up and down my street about 4 times. Decided I needed to do a little clutch worm/cable lubing and adjustment. Also decided to try take some of the raspy death noise out of the pipes by making fiberglass wrapped baffles. So last night I made the baffles and got them installed, it's bit nicer at idle and low rpm but still loud as hell when you open it up. Lubed the clutch cable and adjusted the worm gear, now it pulls a little easier that's for sure but I haven't tested if neutral is any easier to find.
 
So, baffles installed and clutch adjusted, I hit the road for a 12min ride this weekend. It was awesome! Only concern I have is, before I left (just started the bike) I was idling around 13.8-14v. Throughout the ride I was keeping my eye on the Volts and by the time I got back to the house I was sitting at 15v. Now since I'm still breaking in the motor I didn't even have it over 3000 rpm the entire ride. I'm a little bit concerned about what will happen to the voltage readings once I do get over 3000 rpm. Anybody have any idea's on why my readings are so high??

Here's a little video of my slow take off from the house, didn't want to piss off the neighbors too much.

[photobucket]http://vid114.photobucket.com/albums/n261/fox23_01/XS650%20Fast%20Flow/6E184D7A-7E84-4EF5-848D-EF077267D88A_zps0xhzu2xs.mp4[/photobucket]
 
Congrats on the breakin ;) sweet ride you got there. My guess about the high voltage readings is a bad regulator/rectifier.. perhaps you can test it and that way perhaps find out if its working or not.?


if needed a youtube link provided above.
 
- - - Here's a little video of my slow take off from the house, didn't want to piss off the neighbors too much. - - -

Hi fox,
yeah, any louder and the neighbors will hate you.
Any quieter and they won't know you are there.
Sounds like you got it just about perfect.
 
Thanks for the video vsop. That video seems to outline how to test the rectifier function of the reg/rec, but I don't suspect its an issue with the rec function (if it were I don't think it would be charging at all?). I would say it's more the regulator function that isn't working properly.

I sent Hugh an email a week ago asking what their rated typical voltage output is for these PMA units and he said "between 12.9v and 14.9v". I told him I was seeing readings around 14.8-14.9 at the time. He then said maybe I need to look at the Antigravity battery I'm using as they don't agree with "older bikes"? Not sure what that means, but there isn't anything old about this bike anymore as far as electronics go. I'm going to do resistance/diode tests on the magnet and reg/rec tonight just to double check them, and maybe take a double check across my ground connections. Other then that, its got to be a bad rec/reg?
 
Thanks for the video vsop. That video seems to outline how to test the rectifier function of the reg/rec, but I don't suspect its an issue with the rec function (if it were I don't think it would be charging at all?). I would say it's more the regulator function that isn't working properly.

I sent Hugh an email a week ago asking what their rated typical voltage output is for these PMA units and he said "between 12.9v and 14.9v". I told him I was seeing readings around 14.8-14.9 at the time. He then said maybe I need to look at the Antigravity battery I'm using as they don't agree with "older bikes"? Not sure what that means, but there isn't anything old about this bike anymore as far as electronics go. I'm going to do resistance/diode tests on the magnet and reg/rec tonight just to double check them, and maybe take a double check across my ground connections. Other then that, its got to be a bad rec/reg?

Can't really test the reg but you can test the rectifiers.
can test the stator it probably don't need it though.
 
- - - He then said maybe I need to look at the Antigravity battery I'm using as they don't agree with "older bikes"? Not sure what that means, but there isn't anything old about this bike anymore as far as electronics go. - - -

Hi fox,
well, I dunno neither.
OTOH I've always thought those newfangled candy-assed batteries weren't worth the weight-saving or paying all the extra money for.
There's a lot to be said for the good ol' lead-acid batteries that have had over a century of development.
 
Thanks Carbon. Just tested rec/reg. All circuit combinations read around 490 or nothing. Tested stator, all circuit combinations read 0.4ohms.
 
Hi fox,
well, I dunno neither.
OTOH I've always thought those newfangled candy-assed batteries weren't worth the weight-saving or paying all the extra money for.
There's a lot to be said for the good ol' lead-acid batteries that have had over a century of development.

His system has been working well with my shorai.
These batteries are a bit more than a good lead acid battery.
But they last for around 5 years not 2 years.
but they don't care the cold. but ya can mount them in any direction and no over flow.
 
The PMA regulator is a shunt type of regulator, meaning that it works by shunting excess current to ground, the result being that the excess current creates a lot of heat in the regulator. As the regulator heats up the transistor in the regulator that does all the shunting becomes less efficient, so the voltage goes up. Part of the problem is that everyone thinks they need a 250 or even a 300 watt PMA, but if the bike is only using, say 150 watts, then the remainder is simply converted to heat and the regulator can only handle so much before the voltage starts to climb.

So, two or three or four or five things:

1. Choose a PMA that more closely matches your power needs. (hint Not 250 + Watts)
2. Install a higher wattage headlight to burn up some of the power. (Higher low beam wattage, or, keep the high beam on during the day)
3. Mount the regulator where it will get maximum air flow to cool it down so it can work. Many people want to hide the regulator, especially those that are trying for that no electronics retro look.
4. Try disconnecting one of the phases of the PMA. Install a switch to do this.
5. Do not install LED's. You need to be using more electrical power, not less.

My 1973 Honda CB350 has an extra set of contacts in the light switch to disconnect two of the three phases when the headlight is off, so even the big boys (Honda) recognize the problem with PMA's, which is, too much of a good thing.
 
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Thanks for that info Pete. Unfortunately it seems like i've violated almost all of the guidelines you listed above. Does disconnecting one of the phases decrease the output by 33%, or is it not that simple? Has anyone ever tried to run an external voltage regulator (additional to the rec/reg) with these issues?

I also remembered that on my test run I didn't have my headlight on at all (aside from the LED running lights) so running the headlight should help a bit, I might have to run it at all tīmes.
 
- - - I also remembered that on my test run I didn't have my headlight on at all (aside from the LED running lights) so running the headlight should help a bit, I might have to run it at all tīmes.

Hi fox,
and so you should!
I do believe you can get a ticket for running dark and besides, it ain't safe.
If your overcharging woes can be fixed by simply running a horkin' great headlight all the time, at least it's an easy fix as well as a great safety feature.
 
Fred, I've got the LED running lights out front (and rear) which are on all the time. That's most of the reason why I didn't want to have my actual low beam headlight switched on. The LED's acting as front running lights is good enough (ref Audi, BMW, MB... even GM now) for the sake of safety. But like I said, I will try my next test run with the headlight on and see if it keeps my voltage more in check.
 
Fox what voltage does your battery sit at?
My Shorai sits at 13.5 volts I don't think 14.9 volts will fry a Shorai battery.
My HHB PMA system charges at 14.2 to 14.5 haven't en 14.9
 
Usually when the bike is cold its sitting about 13.3v, when it's first started it jumps usually to 13.8-14v and then increases from there as it idles longer/gets ridden. The only time I seen it hit 15v was when it was running for 10-12mins on the test ride.

Now, last night I tested the voltages again (sitting and just started idling) but this time with the low beam on. The readings were about 0.3-0.4v lower than the previous (headlight off, aside from LED's). So Carbon, maybe your headlight is consuming just enough to keep it hovering at 14.5v?



PS. I'm super glad now that I installed that on-board volt meter, its proven really handy so far. And because I know someone is going to ask, its within 0.1-0.2 volts of my actual multimeter readings, so its fairly accurate.
 
Usually when the bike is cold its sitting about 13.3v, when it's first started it jumps usually to 13.8-14v and then increases from there as it idles longer/gets ridden. The only time I seen it hit 15v was when it was running for 10-12mins on the test ride.

Now, last night I tested the voltages again (sitting and just started idling) but this time with the low beam on. The readings were about 0.3-0.4v lower than the previous (headlight off, aside from LED's). So Carbon, maybe your headlight is consuming just enough to keep it hovering at 14.5v?



PS. I'm super glad now that I installed that on-board volt meter, its proven really handy so far. And because I know someone is going to ask, its within 0.1-0.2 volts of my actual multimeter readings, so its fairly accurate.

I will check what the difference is light on or off.
my reading are with light on.
I'll get back to you on that.
 
Thanks Carbon, that would be great.

I finally remembered to get a few pics of the hour meter on top of the bars, does RPM as well. Pretty handy unit, even displays max rpm hit on the engine during its last use once you switch off the ignition. First pic is engine off, second is engine on.



 
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