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Question on priming oil to top end

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by 2XSive, Apr 13, 2019.

  1. 2XSive

    2XSive XSively N. Michigan XS650.com Supporter

    So I rebuilt a stock motor that I had planned to use for spare parts since the pistons were seized. Paid $50 for it in a rolling frame. Upon tear down the entire engine internals were in very good condition, except pistons/cylinders. Even the front cam chain guide was intact with plenty of plastic remaining. It was clear the motor had never been torn apart before, and the previous owner(s) just neglected it. Decided to rebuild it. I replaced pistons with over-sized from Cruzin Image, and bored out the cylinders. Had the heads/valves professionally done at a machine shop. Since it'll be several months before I'm ready to put this engine into a build, i wanted to make sure engine internals were well-lubricated in addition to the normal pre-lubing done during build-up process. I removed one of the bolts from the head at the top of the oil feed tube. Filled the motor with 20w-50 Valvoline. It's about 60 degrees f in the garage. Put teaspoon of 2-stroke oil in top of cylinders and left plugs out. Hooked up electric starter and proceeded to crank it over at 10-15 second intervals. I also left the side oil filter out. I thought I'd immediately see oil come to the top of the oil feed tube, but nothing. Is it due to the thick/cool oil? After cranking it several times, I removed the side cover to the oil filter and oil poured out, so I know the pump is working (at least to that point). Can anyone with experience comment on how long it should take to get oil to the top of the oil feed tube? Should I tear the oil pump down and re-measure clearances? Is this normal due to the relative low cranking speed of the starter? If so, what's this say for any cold-start mornings using 20w-50? Before anyone asks, yes, I made sure there was no blockage in the feed tube and passages prior to re-assembly.
     
    Jim likes this.
  2. Jim

    Jim The thrill of victory and da agony of da feet. Top Contributor XS650.com Supporter

    Put the side filter in. The bolt that holds it is also the pressure relief valve. Without it, oil is just bypassing back to the sump.

    Also, when I pre-oil, I take the valve adjusters out so the cam isn't forcing the valves open. It'll spin considerably faster.....
     
    YamadudeXS650C likes this.
  3. 2XSive

    2XSive XSively N. Michigan XS650.com Supporter

    Good point, Jim. I'll loosen valve adjusters back up. I did have the filter in originally, but when I didn't see oil come to the top I removed it (think I saw that on another post as a recommendation).
     
    Jim likes this.
  4. Jim

    Jim The thrill of victory and da agony of da feet. Top Contributor XS650.com Supporter

    If I remember..... prolly took 30-40 seconds on my last motor. That was with plugs out, adjusters out and a fully charged new battery. And I don't open up the feed tube, I just look for oil spilling down on all 4 rockers.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2019
    gggGary likes this.
  5. 2XSive

    2XSive XSively N. Michigan XS650.com Supporter

    Thanks, Jim. Yeah, I did that originally....looked for oil to the rockers but after several attempts and not seeing anything, loosed up the top feed bolt. I'll remove the adjusters, install the filter, and give it a go. Just seems like a long time to get lube to the top-end.
     
    Jim likes this.
  6. Jim

    Jim The thrill of victory and da agony of da feet. Top Contributor XS650.com Supporter

    Well, just as a guess, I'd say the starter is only spinning the motor 'bout 100-200 rpm. It takes awhile.
    Patience grasshopper.... ;)
     
    YamadudeXS650C and 2XSive like this.
  7. gggGary

    gggGary Stop that! Top Contributor XS650.com Supporter

    There is a restriction orifice in the fitting at the base of the cylinder oil feed tube, is it known to be clear and open?
     
    Jim likes this.
  8. 2XSive

    2XSive XSively N. Michigan XS650.com Supporter

    Yes, made sure there were no restrictions. If Jim's suggestion doesn't work, will definitely pull the tube and troubleshoot from there. Thanks, Gary.
     
    Jim and gggGary like this.
  9. gggGary

    gggGary Stop that! Top Contributor XS650.com Supporter

    Is the clutch push rod held in place? if that's out there's a pretty big leak in the pressure oil galleries.
     
    TwoManyXS1Bs, YamadudeXS650C and Jim like this.
  10. 2XSive

    2XSive XSively N. Michigan XS650.com Supporter

    Yes...motor is completely assembled. Appreciate the checklist items.
     
    gggGary and Jim like this.
  11. 2XSive

    2XSive XSively N. Michigan XS650.com Supporter

    Well, Jim. You were right. Removed the valve adjusters, re-installed oil filter, and about 40 seconds (several intervals) of cranking, oil flowed freely to the top rockers. I was paranoid for no reason, I guess, but it does seem like a long time before the top-end receives oil. This caused me to really study how the valve train gets lubricated overall. Looks like the valve-stem/springs only get residual oil splashed, is that correct?
     
    gggGary and Jim like this.
  12. Jim

    Jim The thrill of victory and da agony of da feet. Top Contributor XS650.com Supporter

    When it's started and comes up to 1200-1500 rpm, it's only a matter of 5-10 sec. for oil flow.
    Yeah... rockers get (low) pressure lube because they're a bushing/shaft arrangement. No other way to get lube in that situation. Everything else... cam, cam bearings, chain, valve stem and springs are splash lube.
     
  13. 2XSive

    2XSive XSively N. Michigan XS650.com Supporter

     
    Jim likes this.
  14. TwoManyXS1Bs

    TwoManyXS1Bs BBQ Hunter Top Contributor

  15. xjwmx

    xjwmx XS650 Guru Top Contributor

    6,788
    2,030
    313
    U.S.A.
    Remove one of the front valve covers and start kicking. If the floor and front of the bike is covered with oil after about a minute you're in business...
     
    gggGary likes this.
  16. XSLeo

    XSLeo XS650 Guru Top Contributor

    The oil filter bolt with the bypass doesn't bypass the oil to the sump. It only bypasses the filter. On the early bikes the bypass was in the pump housing and that one did bypass to the sump.
    Having the filter out won't cause any flow problems. The filter takes up a bit of the cavities capacity. So it will take a bit more time to fill.
    If you used plenty of assembly lube, A very thick oil, almost a grease, You can store an engine a long time.
    Years maybe.
    To store that engine I would wrap it up with plastic and put dessicant packs in with it to absorb any moisture. Help to prevent rust.
    Leo
     
    TwoManyXS1Bs and 2XSive like this.
  17. Jim

    Jim The thrill of victory and da agony of da feet. Top Contributor XS650.com Supporter

    Doh.... yer right. :doh:
     
    TwoManyXS1Bs likes this.
  18. 2XSive

    2XSive XSively N. Michigan XS650.com Supporter

    TwoManyXS1Bs, gggGary and Jim like this.
  19. TwoManyXS1Bs

    TwoManyXS1Bs BBQ Hunter Top Contributor

    Yeah, thanx, and that's when I noticed the delay of getting oil to the top. After putting in the hi-volume pump, the delay is down to 2 seconds...
     
    gggGary, 2XSive and Jim like this.
  20. 2XSive

    2XSive XSively N. Michigan XS650.com Supporter

    So do you recommend the hi-vol pump from Mike's then, 2M? Any other mods to increase flow to topend? Sorry, this may have been thoroughly addressed in your related thread...still reading through it.
     
    gggGary and TwoManyXS1Bs like this.

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