raked triple trees?

[AceofSpades]

I picked up a Honda frontend with air forks and dual disc brakes... They are a couple inches longer than stock XS650 forks.

I really want to maintain a stock frame but I was wondering if anyone had any experience with triple trees that have 3-5 degrees of rake built into them... I don't want anything extreme or too radical....

I want to add a little rake along with a stretched swingarm and a mildly dropped seat, but I really want to keep the stock tank (just to be different)

 

[mrriggs]

If you want to rake the forks then you need to rake the neck. Raking the neck will increase trial and make the bike harder to steer. Raked trees are used to increase offset to lower the trail. So raked trees are only to be used on bikes that already have a raked neck. If you put raked trees on a bike with a stock neck rake then the trail will be dangerously low. Think broken shopping cart wheel.

 

[AceofSpades]

I am a bit confused... I see that they sell raked trees for HDs in almost every catalog/web site... but you say that they are no good for the XS650s or any bikes in general? I thought a couple degrees built into the forks would be a good thing. Actually the front end I picked up actually has an inverted/reversed rake.... the lower tree has less offset than the upper

 

[mrriggs]

Just because guys bolt them onto their stock Harleys, that doesn't mean it's a good idea. Harley guys can get away with it because the stock trail is usually around 6", so if they lose 2" of trail from the raked trees then they will still have 4". While it will be less stable than a typical Harley, it won't likely lead to a massive tank slapper.

The little XS650 has a stock trail of 4.5", so if you lose 2" from raked trees then you will only be left with 2.5". That would be dangerous.

You can not make changes to the front end based on what looks right or what other people are doing, YOU HAVE TO DO THE MATH!

I made a little program that will not only do the math for you, but is also "animated" so you can see how changing one thing effects the others.

http://www.gofastforless.com/junk/MotoGeo.exe

If it doesn't work, you need to download the Visual Basic runtime files from Microsoft.

What this program doesn't tell you is how much offset you will get with raked trees. For that, you will need to draw it out and do some trig. The offset will change as the forks compress so you will have to find the offset at both fully extended and fully compressed.

 

[rwingsfan]

Mr. Riggs is 100% right. Raked trees are a huge no-no. Even on Harleys they make for ill riding. They are only intended to offset the heavyness of raked neck on choppers. Now if they offered raked neck bearing cups like they do for harleys, then you would be alright.

I am a bit confused... I see that they sell raked trees for HDs in almost every catalog/web site... but you say that they are no good for the XS650s or any bikes in general? I thought a couple degrees built into the forks would be a good thing. Actually the front end I picked up actually has an inverted/reversed rake.... the lower tree has less offset than the upper

 

[Capt_Zoom]

6 degree Raked trees work great on my raider but its got a raked neck already.

 

[AussieHard]

Mr. Riggs is 100% right. Raked trees are a huge no-no. Even on Harleys they make for ill riding. They are only intended to offset the heavyness of raked neck on choppers. Now if they offered raked neck bearing cups like they do for harleys, then you would be alright.

I have been looking into raked neck bearing cups and found these:
http://thexscafedotcom.wordpress.com/2011/01/29/xs650-fork-rake-adjustor/

Anyone got any experience with them?
Could you get a 36Deg neck rake out of them do you think? I would rather not have to cut and reweld the neck if these are viable.

 

[mrriggs]

If I read that right, they will change the rake by less than 2 degrees so you wouldn't even get to 30 degrees.

 

[Travis]

Another thread on raked trees, if anyone is interested: http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3301

 

[buckeyechuck]

This has diagrams that show what happen when you rake trees without raked neck,

http://www.seegercycle.com/rake-and-trail.aspx

 

[jeepguy]

basically from what i understand the only reason you would really need raked trees would be to fix negative trail... just my 2 cents

 

[XSLeo]

Look at the link Buckeyechuck posted. Yes, raked trees are used to maintain the proper trail when you rake the frame. They can "fix" some trail problems when using longer forks.
I think the Harley aftermarket sells raked trees because Harleys get raked more than other brands. So to get the trail back in specs you need the raked trees. Having the raked bearing cups can let you fine tune the trail.
Say the racked trees change the trail in one inch jumps. Using raked cups may change the trail in 1/2 inch jumps. So you can juggle around the parts and get a trail that works.
Changing the tree offset effects the trail too. I have a set of XS1100 trees and the offset is about .56 inches less than the XS650 trees. If I use them on my XS650 it will change the trail from 3.9 inches to 4.46 inches. This should still be safe, straight line stability will increase. It will require more effort to turn. By how much things change I guess I'll have to try them to see.

 

[Welfare Willy]

mrriggs I don't know where you get your info on the "little 650", my maint. manual for my 2009 650 states that it has 145 mm.(5.71in.) of trail,more over is states that the neck of the frame has a "caster angle" of 35 deg.

 

[Marvelicious]

Funny, I thought they stopped making these bikes? 2009? Are we talking about the same things here?

 

[Cafe-Dave]

I've designed plenty of 3-4 raked trees before. 36 Degrees in the neck, 4 Degrees in the trees, 2.250" Offset (measured from the intersection of the steering axis with the clamp's top surface), +6 legs with a skinny 21" wheel is great on a bike with a 100" wheelbase. 4.200" of trail and great manners during everything you'll want to do with such a single purpose motorcycle.

On a OEM UJM frame, bad idea festival.

 

[Welfare Willy]

Yes I think we're talking about the same machine,I don't know if Yamaha stopped making these bikes or not,but I do know they made at least one in 2009. here's a pic 2009 Yamaha XVS65YLC/V-Star Custom.

 

[Welfare Willy]

That is a sharp bike Cafe-Dave

 

[XSLeo]

The XS650, the bike we all love was not made imported to the USA after 1982.
The XV series of 650's are not XS650's They are a V-twin engined shaft driven cruiser. They have a laid back rake to make sgtraight line riding more stable. Going much past 35 degree's you will need raked trees to get a usable trail.
Harley puts raked trees on the V-rod series of bikes. This gives it the low, long stance it has without handling problems.
Leo

 

[AceofSpades]

Well, I forgot all about this thread... then it suddenly reappeared... I have moved on...not concerned with a stock frame.anymore.. in fact all that's left of my frame is the spine and neck.