Replacing cam chain Tensioner gasket XS650B

[Orion61]

Hi all, I have gone through the search and havent really gotten all my answers. I have had great support from you with all my needs so far in getting my 75B going after sitting for nearly 13 years.
What do I need to do to change the gasket for the cam chain tensioner? Can I do it in the frame? I have a pretty good oil leak that is either coming from the bottom of the tensioner cover OR the bottom of the jug.
It used to have a seeping oil leak on the bottom of the left cyl at the base that would drip onto the shifter but that isn't leaking now. It never was bad just a couple drips in 50 miles, but now idling for 20 min and there is an ounce of oil on the floor.
I presume I need to pull the carbs again No big deal, I have one needle valve leaking and over filling the carb anyway if it is sitting and not running, there are the 6 bolts, THEN WHAT?...
Thanks

 

[xjwmx]

It is almost certainly not the gasket, but if it was all you need to replace it is a 10mm wrench and some gasket paper from Advance. Trace the cover on the paper and cut out the center and holes, or trace your old gasket on the paper. Before you install it coat both sides lightly with grease and it'll last forever.

BUT what it probably is is a worn out O-ring behind the cap nut. Any good hardware store has ones that will fit well enough, either separately on as part of an assortment. Does not have to be special rubber. Napa had an assortment of viton o-rings and a couple of those work too. Finally got to use it for something Ideally the o-ring will seat about half in and half out of the cap nut.

SOMETHING TO LOOK FOR is the lock nut under the cap nut can get raised edges from the wrench slipping. Take it off and if there are raised edges file them level with a few strokes of a file. If you don't do that the cap nut won't go all the way down.

 

[Orion61]

I thought of that, but after the oil had been leaking I wiped it and the cap down and face plate too, After running it some more there wasn't any oil anywhere but on top of the case at the adjuster bottom. While it is on the kick stand the oil runs from the bottom of the cover, off to the left case cover onto the kick-stand. If the cap ring was bad I think I would have noticed it running down to the top of the case? It is something to check more carefully, I took a video of it running and I am sure I got footage of the adjuster area. I appreciate the help and I always try to double check the pointers I receive. It is amazing how many things can go wrong with a Bike or car when they sit for 10+ years, even when they are inside in a heated room like this one!.
I have already sent for and received a new gasket, I take it I don't need to use any sealer? perhaps some grease on the gaskets?

 

[xjwmx]

No sealer on gaskets. On the one you're talking about, grease on both sides.

If it's not coming from the cap nut, something else it can be is the neutral switch. Oil will slobber up between the black plastic part and the metal sides part. You can take a mini vice grip and lightly crimp the metal down on the plastic at 6 places on the top. It makes it seal at the bottom. Do not over tighten the switch because there are not many threads there. It only needs to be about as tight as a spark plug.

 

[Orion61]

But back to the original question, 10mm wrench to remove the 6 bolts then does the cover and cap pull straight off? Or is there some more to it?
I really think I should re-Torque the head bolts because I was getting some seeping from the gasket on the Left jug down where it meets the case. again that isn't leaking, I am wondering the leak to crept to the middle????? So if I do the head bolts do I just do the big ones first?

 

[xjwmx]

Yes, there's nothing to replacing the gasket, but I doubt it's the problem. Just screw the adjuster all the way out, lay it somewhere like it came out. Then undo the six bolts. Get all traces of the old gasket off. Use paint stripper if necessary. Clean the mating surfaces with brake cleaner on a rag. Grease the gasket. Put back together. The head bolts, if they're loose it might cause the other leak, tighten them and see. But tightening them over and over will eventually use up the resilience of the head and base gaskets and they might as well not be there.

P.S. The big ones are the only ones that make it to the base gasket where you say a leak is. There's a correct order for them in the manual.

 

[Orion61]

Thank you XJ, I'm sending you a Cyber Beer in thanks! I dearly love this site and really appreciate the way folks take the time to help answer questions!
I thought it was pretty funny for it to start to leak so badly when it had never leaked there at all before, and now it was NOT leaking where it had been??
Is there crank case ventilation as in an automotive engine? If it is plugged that would certainly expedite a leak. I don't know where it would be on my bike tho.
I will re-Torque the Head Bolts, I know it hadn't been done since the early 90's when I bought the bike.
A couple of friends are giving me a huge bit of grief on the time I am taking in this old bike when I have a fairly new V twin Boulevard Touring bike with the Thick White Wall tires and saddle bags & Windshield! One said My 650 would make a good paint shaker...(the Jerk) because of the vibration.
BUT I just love the 650, always have. I also had a couple TX750's and no matter what bad press those and the little 500 get from them blowing up,
If they would have been set up correctly at the dealership I think they would have been much better thought of! they came with the counter balance chain loose and
that is how most went out the door, only to blow up in the first couple thousand (if not only a couple) miles.
I had a 500 TX (Purple one) that ran GREAT! I mean it gave any xs650 all it could handle in a race until the gearing hit top end and the 650 pulled away!
My first one had a bad first gear so if you got on it hard it would kick out of gearwhen it rapped up! It was fine if you rode it normally tho. I ended up trading it for an OPEL GT
2 seat German built mini-Corvette!
The 2nd TX-750 smoked like crazy and had a cracked piston, It had 30,000 miles on it but otherwise was fine, I rebuilt the top side and it ran for another 26,000
miles, I lost track of it after I sold it, but it proved to me they could last 60,000 plus miles IF the counter Balance chain was properly kept adjusted! That was simple and only took a couple minutes to do! I would LOVE to find another 73 or 74 TX750, and would about sell my soul for one!
I wouldn't think twice trading my 2008 Boulevard for a clean one with under 20k.

 

[xjwmx]

I had forgotten Opel ever existed. The crankcase ventilation (in your xs) is directly above that adjuster. You can't miss it. You can take it off and make sure it's not clogged it you want. Can probably re-use its gasket as long as you don't break it. Just leave it sticking to one side or the other. Send me a cyber vodka instead. The only place I feel beer is in my bladder

 

[gggGary]

couple things from the

gallery

Find the head stud retorque guide and do that.
One at a time, remove lube torque. get the two bolts under the plugs too, THEN and in your case this may be key, ever so CAREFULLY loosen and snug that 6mm that lives over the cam chain adjuster housing. That little guy has about 3" of thin head gasket to guard all by himself. You have to be SO careful when tightening him it's a short thread in an aluminum casting, forget torque settings this a FEEL thing. I have a pretty strong feeling that's where your leak is. You can't always win but it's sure worth a shot. Tank off a long extension and wobble on a 1/4" 10mm socket will get at it.

Next up; if you are REALLY set on getting yourself into a money pit bike project; I know a guy with 2 TX750's, the pair with titles for a low price.(I could part them and make money low) but I don't want to do that to complete bikes. Neither has any of the factory "fix" kits on them. I would say they are on the cusp could go either way restore or parts Having a pair should get you darned close to one decent rider without much extra $$$ PM if you are a glutton for punishment. I believe I have some pics. This is not a general offer, for Orion only.

 

[Michaelo]

Can you post the footage you have? The oil leak is quiet substantial, wipe all surfaces down, a good spotlight on the area will find the leak and then go from there....have you done the re torque yet? Please don't over torque all head bolts, in sequence, as per manual, if not already done.
What I've done in the past is release one nut at a time, copper coat the nut, then re torque. You can have nuts completely bound in their threads and possibly, and I say possibly, stretch / break/ or pull the studs from the alloy case just by re torquing . Some might disagree, but I've been doing this way for years....engine cold too

 

[Michaelo]

Ditto Gaz as well, I must have been writing when he posted

 

[Orion61]

What do you mean by copper coat the nut?
I have NOT re Torqued the head bolts yet, I bought a brand new click lock wrench, AND tested it with Bar Bell weights for accuracy..
As far as the bolt above the adjuster, what is the torque stae it is "supposed" to be? The word feel is pretty tough to judge by..
I have a small circular S/K 1/4" handle less ratchet, that would be a palm tightening, it that close?

 

[5twins]

By "copper coat", I think he means copper based anti-seize. I anti-seize all the cylinder head nuts and bolts, along with pretty much every other nut and bolt on the bike. The small bolt at the back of the head is an M6 and takes the standard M6 torque spec (5 to 8 ft/lbs). I wouldn't go the max, I'd do 6 to 7. If you can't get the torque wrench on it, just tighten it as you would one of the other small M6 fasteners on the bike. You could practice on the pinch bolts on your handlebar lever perches.

 

[gggGary]

#11 6mm 7 ft lbs. If you have done the sump filter you should have a handle on tightening 6mm bolts. Those sump bolts are special, designed to break when over torqued bolts. They have the same short thread in aluminum problem as that rear head gasket bolt. Yamaha decided to head off "Billy the oil change boy" before he destroyed the bottom case. I think every 6mm I have checked on the back of the head was hand tight or less. Well one was already broken off by a PO......... yeah the feel is a learned art, For me on that bolt a short grip on a 1/4 socket wrench and literally feeling the bolt tension up the joint on the gasket. then just "a bit" more 1/16th turn???? but again it's a feel thing. Hope that helps!

Coppr Kote is copper based anti sieze. IMHO here; Any anti sieze (the cheaper stuff) or motor oil is just fine also. Many like to replace the 4 rubber steel washers with copper washers. They feel the rubber shrinks causing the studs to loosen. My take is heat cycling the steel, aluminum and gaskets relaxes the tension over time. I've put many thousands of miles on reused rubber steel washers.

 

[gggGary]

One more riff on tightening "feel". If your bolt and casting threads are clean (they should be, if in doubt run a tap) you CAN feel the joint tension up and the torque required to turn the bolt slowly increase. Torque wrench or no, ANY TIME a bolt starts to turn with LESS force needed, STOP. Either the threads in the aluminum are starting to pull out or the bolt is stretching. Old Honda side cover screws were notorious for stretching (possibly by design) In the sixties the mechanic more than likely had learned his trade working on cast iron parts, LOL.

 

[Orion61]

GEEZ!!! Thanks you guys, here I was thinking I was going to clean the carbs, tank, lube the cable put in the Battery and go......
Elvis recorded a song in 1960 called "Fool Such as I"....
I have some Graphite lube in a tube, a tiny pinch really works, it is impervious to heat, that should work huh?

 

[5twins]

I've been applying anti-seize to all the fasteners on EVERYTHING I work on for probably 40 years. You really should get some and then get in the habit of using it. It does no good sitting on the shelf in the can, lol. It's particularly useful on bikes because of all the steel fasteners that go into alloy.

 

[Michaelo]

I think it was branded as Kopr-Kote, been around for a 1000 years, good product, my thoughts were that you would have known what I meant...7 hours riding yesterday kinda fucked me, 5twins and Gaz have it nailed.
I do want to see a picture of the head, do you have the large brass washers on the studs?
We're running blind here man, hey 5Twins, 12,000 posts, wow your a bloody legend mate! Congratulations, exceptional effort

 

[Orion61]

You know I seem to remember looking one time and I do not believe it had the Brass washers. I think it was just a steel washer, does it make a difference
by expanding and contracting, or perhaps once it is squished down leave a bit of tension like a lock washer?
If it is supposed to have them on the head bolts I should order some of them. Where do I get the ones most like the OEM, how much are they? it sounds like a specialty thing.
Unfortunately I am in the midst of Moving, our Landlord decided to sell the house we have been in for 3 years. YUUUK..

 

[Michaelo]

The inner washers are a oil sealing type with a rubber insert, the outer are a thick washer, I replaced mine during re build with the brass type. No not a spring type, just a flat washer....mine came from AU....I'll have a look at mikes XS and see if they are there