Right Cylinder popping and fowling plug, WTH

[Orion61]

I had my bike running pretty well but now the thing is dead/Popping on the Right Cylinder. Pulling the plug finds it fouled with gas.
The thing I did was try to trace down a wiring problem for my flashers. I did have the key on for about 10-15 minutes and remember the coil getting pretty warm. Not burning hot.
I dressed the points and checked the gap, then remembered that you arent supposed to leave a points system on. These years of Electronic Ignition has made me forgetful. If I pull the plug and dry it off with a torch, I still get a spark but I am afraid it isn't a really strong one.
I am wondering if I fried my Coil, or condenser. If it is running and I rev it up, I will get an intermittent pop from that cylinder....
Thanks, Orion

 

[retiredgentleman]

You're not supposed to leave the key on (engine off) for any ignition system, points or electronic. Yes, I'd say its time to buy some new ignition components. If you are still using those old stock type ignition coils, they were on the weak side when new. Now that they are old, they are only marginal for performance. Sure you probably damaged that one coil that had the points closed and current flowed for the 10 or 15 minutes.

You can buy a new or used coil identical to what you have, but that is not what I would do. These engines run so much better with a Pamco and the E-advance. No more fiddling with points, no more playing with a mechanical advance that is worn out. If you plan to
keep the bike, its the best money you can spend.

 

[Orion61]

Thanks Retired Gent.. about how much does that cost for everything? I would need some step by step instructions a Monkey could follow.
How hard/ long does it take to do??
Thanks again for the advice.
Larry Duane

 

[littlebill31]

Mikes XS sells the whole kit.
Pamco website has instructions

Its not very hard to do. Just read the instructions a few times and you'll get it.

 

[Royboy]

Do it! Some of the best money you'll ever spend. (to quote RG) Pamco is the answer.

roy

 

[Orion61]

It looks to me about $300.00 is that correct?
I have a quick question tho; Do you take out the existing Advance shaft?

 

[retiredgentleman]

It looks to me about $300.00 is that correct?
I have a quick question tho; Do you take out the existing Advance shaft?

No, the advancer shaft gets bolted directly to the camshaft. The Pamco rotor is bolted to the advancer shaft.

 

[5twins]

You strip the current components off the advance rod (points cam, advance unit plate) but then continue to use it to hold the new Pamco parts. Here's two advance rods. The one on the left still has the points cam installed. The one on the right has the Pamco rotor installed in it's place .....

 

[Orion61]

OK so you pull the points adjusting plate and cam off and then just bolt on the Pamco rotor. That is something this trained Monkey should be able to pull off.
I appreciate the info.

 

[5twins]

You also get a pick-up plate that replaces your points plate. It is slotted and adjustable just like the points plate was. This is how you set and/or adjust the timing, basically the same as you did with the points plate (rotate it CW or CCW). The nice thing about the Pamco is that it fires both plugs at once. You only have to set one instance of the timing, not set it twice like with the points.

 

[Orion61]

So why the heck didn't the Factory do that? If both Cyls fire at the same time, why have 2 sets of points?
Does the Advance rod need to be pulled out?
The next thing you know they will make a bolt on Fuel injector system for them..

 

[mrtwowheel]

So why the heck didn't the Factory do that? If both Cyls fire at the same time, why have 2 sets of points?
Does the Advance rod need to be pulled out?
The next thing you know they will make a bolt on Fuel injector system for them..

I've been wondering that too lately, while deciding weather to use a dual lobe point cam and one set of points. Why didn't Yamaha do that? I'm wondering if an OEM point set has enough spring pressure to work that fast with that small diameter cam. I would feel much better doing this conversion if high performance points with stronger springs were still available, like the Echlin Gold point sets that I used in the old days.

Scott

 

[5twins]

Both cylinders don't fire (their combustion mix) at the same time. The pistons do rise and fall together on this motor but they're not doing the same thing. When one is at TDC on it's compression stroke (where it fires), the other is at TDC on it's exhaust stroke. The cylinders need spark at different times. The points system accomplishes this with two sets of points that each fire at a different time. But, the difference between the firing points in the two cylinders is 180°. That means you could have an ignition that fired both cylinders every 180°, which is what the Pamco does and also what the later stock TCI does. That "extra" spark going off in the cylinder that doesn't need it is called a "waste spark" because, well, it's wasted (not doing anything).

It's best that you do pull the advance rod out. That will make it easier to work on (remove the points cam, install the Pamco rotor) and give you the chance to clean and lube it. The rod is just raw steel so should have a light coating of lube so it won't rust. Also clean and lube the bushings in the cam ends that the rod turns in. Now, if you go with the E-advance set-up, your advance rod will no longer rotate back and forth a little like it did with the points and mechanical advance unit. It will get locked in place. But, you still want to keep those parts in there lubed to protect them from corrosion.

 

[5twins]

I tried the single points set-up and it didn't work out too well for me. I thought it would be the greatest thing since sliced white bread but not so much in this case. I have factory single points set-ups on other bikes and they work great - but that's because they were designed as a single points system to begin with I think. The problems I had with the 650 set-up were two-fold. First, the MikesXS cam was badly machined. The two lobes weren't matched and fired the cylinders at different times. I managed to fix that by spending an afternoon filing and wet stoning the approach ramp on the more advanced lobe until it's firing point matched the other one. Now, the MikesXS site says in their description that uneven firing is due to worn out cam bushings. I'd say that's mostly BULLSHIT and just a way of covering their ass on this poorly made part. I suppose that it is possible but in my case, if that was the problem, I shouldn't have been able to correct the mis-matched firing by "working" the cam lobe.

The second problem was with the Yamaha points set. It wasn't designed to do double duty like this and wears quicker as a result. Just as an example, I checked the timing just before pulling the points and installing my Pamco. It was off. Looking in my maintenance log revealed that I had just set it a mere 400 miles before. I didn't install this thing so I could do more timing and points adjustments, lol, I was hoping for just the opposite.

 

[MaxPete]

Good notes on a useful topic RtDGent and 5T.

 

[Orion61]

Thank you for the information, I was under the impression that both cylinders fired together, I would suppose if they did the bike woul shake itself apart with vibration..
Thanks for the info.. Had to be Air Lifted back to the Hospital, that is why I havent responded..
Thanks a ton you guys..
BTW How big of a job (how long) to pull the advance rod out?

 

[retiredgentleman]

Its an easy job to remove the advance rod, take maybe 30 minutes. Read the Haynes manual, which has pictures and exploded views as well. Get well soon so you can get back to working on your bike.