Right side cover help

[Robert Reed]

Hey everyone.

I'm having an issue with 4th gear "false neutrals" and came across this thread http://www.xs650.com/threads/false-neutrals-and-slipping-out-of-gear.2410/ describing similar symptoms and what others did to remedy it. Seems like for most it was a simple spring replacement.

My question is, will I need to remove the clutch basket to access either of the springs or should I be able to leave it in place?

 

[5twins]

You should be able to leave the clutch in place but it would be easier with it removed. Here are the 2 springs in question, small but different in size .....

A word of caution about removing that right side cover - hold the kicker shaft in with your thumb as you pull the cover off or it can come off with it. That will unhook the return spring and you'll have to re-set it. Not difficult if you understand how but there's no need to even have to do it if you're careful with the cover removal. In other words, the problem is easily avoided.

 

[Robert Reed]

You should be able to leave the clutch in place but it would be easier with it removed. Here are the 2 springs in question, small but different in size .....

A word of caution about removing that right side cover - hold the kicker shaft in with your thumb as you pull the cover off or it can come off with it. That will unhook the return spring and you'll have to re-set it. Not difficult if you understand how but there's no need to even have to do it if you're careful with the cover removal. In other words, the problem is easily avoided.

Thank you for the response and the advice. I actually came across this exact image in my google searching but wasn't sure if it was accessible with the clutch still in place.

I have ordered both springs and a gasket from MikesXS and will keep my fingers crossed that this is what's causing my issue. Really don't want to have to dig deeper than this.

Are there torque specs regarding the reassembly of the case cover?

 

[5twins]

Yes, for the cover screws, but nothing special, just the standard value for an M6 fastener. That would be 5 to 8 ft/lbs but this being a near 40 year old machine and since the screws are going into alloy, I don't recommend using the max value. I torque mine to 80 in/lbs. That's 6 2/3 ft/lbs. With an oil holding cover, it's not so important that all the fasteners be really tight, at the max spec, but rather that they are all the same tightness.

A small in/lb torque wrench is best for this. Torque wrenches are most accurate through the middle portion of their range. Using a larger torque wrench at down near it's minimum setting won't be very accurate at all.

 

[Robert Reed]

Thank you again for another great response. Looks like I need to find an in/lb torque wrench.

 

[5twins]

HF has a cheap one, not the best quality of course, but it works well enough. A note on these clicker type torque wrenches - store them turned down to or nearly to their minimum setting. In this case, the minimum setting is 20 in/lbs. I would store this one at somewhere between 20 and 25 in/lbs. I store all my "clickers" pretty much 2 clicks above their minimum value.

 

[650Skull]

Check out this thread ..............http://www.xs650.com/threads/finding-neutral-while-stopped-and-in-gear.47568/

 

[Robert Reed]

Just pulled the cover off and the spring was indeed broken. Overall was a very easy job.

One question I do have, how many bolts should have the copper washers?

 

[5twins]

The lower 4 screws in the pattern. They sit below the oil level. You may have found some on the little oil filter cover screws but they're not called for there. I've been running mine for years without washers on those filter cover screws and have never had any leaks there .....

 

[Robert Reed]

That's where I expected to find them but I only had 2 and they were on the longer screws in front of the oil filter cover.

Looks like I need to place another order with Mike's XS.

Is there any reason to not torque it down now and add the washers later?

 

[xjwmx]

I have ordered both springs and a gasket

If it's not too late, if your gasket is original I suggest reusing it. It's good for a dozen or more uses, not so with replacements.

 

[xjwmx]

That's where I expected to find them but I only had 2 and they were on the longer screws in front of the oil filter cover.

Looks like I need to place another order with Mike's XS.

Is there any reason to not torque it down now and add the washers later?

If it wasn't leaking there before for lack of washers, it probably won't now. If it does, then you can try to find washers at the hardware store. Maybe hog out the center hole a bit to fit. No problem loosening the bolts one at a time to put washers on them if needed.

 

[5twins]

Carefully inspect the lower holes in the cover. Sometimes the washers get mashed into them and stay there when you pull the screw. If you find you still need some, they can still be bought at a Yamaha dealer too .....

http://www.boats.net/parts/detail/yamaha/Y-90430-06014-00.html

 

[Paul Sutton]

Thank you 5twins, you solved my very minor oil leak mystery. Just checked and my copper washers are only on the long screws. Off to make some more copper washers on the lathe this evening.

 

[5twins]

As I said, many times you find them on the little filter cover screws, and many times those were "borrowed" from the other cover screws that actually need them.

 

[Paul Sutton]

Job complete: Copper washer made, annealed and fitted.

 

[Robert Reed]

Ugh.

Torque wrench broke 3 bolts into it, guessed on the rest for the time being.

No more 4th gear false neutrals though!

 

[Bob Kelly III]

Ugh ! I never use a torque wrench on side covers, just tighten them with the allen wrench and double check them all
.... the 5mm allen wrench I have is a short one so I turn it as tight as I can get it , (or until it hurts my Hand) if you have a long 5mm allen wrench use about half that pressure! just make sure their all good and snug they don't have to be super tight.
.....
the broken bolts need to come out.... if your real lucky some of the bolt will be sticking out of the hole where you can grab it with vicegrips
and turn it to get it out.... if your unlucky it will take a drill and easy out and that is best done by someone that has done it before or you risk braking off the easy out too which won't drill out with a standard drill bit.
if you attempt to drill out the screws the punch mark has to be in the exact center of the broke off screw .... it cannot be off to one side
some times when making the punch mark I have seen the screws break loose if that happens you might be able to get them out with a awl or pick and work it out where you can get your fingers on it !
broke off screws are one of the hardest things to get out in my experience..... it ain't easy and real easy to screw up the engine
good luck !
....
Bob.........

 

[Robert Reed]

Bob,

My post may have been unclear. The torque wrench broke after tightening 3 bolts, all bolt are still intact.

 

[Paul Sutton]

That is a relief! Best of luck with the rest of the work, there is always more to do.