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Rocker Cover - Broken Stud

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by 650Burger, Feb 25, 2020.

  1. 650Burger

    650Burger XS650 Enthusiast

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    As I was happy and taking my freshly rebuilt bike for its first ride, I noticed an oil leak. Thinking the worst, I look and notice one of the pins on the rocker cover vibrated itself out!

    20200225_192022.jpg

    Looks like there's a little bit of the pin still in the hole:

    20200225_192118.jpg

    I took some measurements and the hole is 7mm deep.

    I am hesitating between two ideas mentioned in previous threads (Here and Here) the leading one being using a helicoil (never used one before) and the other being to tap the hole to a M8 1.0 and then use a M8 to M6 pin.
    Please let me know what method you think is superior and more long lasting (I'm resisting the urge to JB weld it and shmear ATV on there...)
     
    Paul Sutton likes this.
  2. Jim

    Jim Beyond the edge, is the unknown. Here be Dragons XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Not to go all semantic... but it's a stud, not a pin. It's threaded in. ;)
    Can't tell from the pics, are the threads still intact in the hole?
     
    gggGary and YamadudeXS650C like this.
  3. 650Burger

    650Burger XS650 Enthusiast

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    Sorry I'm doing my best! There are no threads left at all.
     
    Paul Sutton and Jim like this.
  4. Jim

    Jim Beyond the edge, is the unknown. Here be Dragons XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    No worries. I was an aircraft maintenance instructor for 15 yrs. Correcting students on terminology is kinda baked it... :rolleyes:
    If the threads are gone, I'd use a helicoil and put the correct size stud back in it. Helicoils are a relatively easy and useful skill to pick up. Loctited in with red loctite, it'll be as strong as new.
     
  5. YamadudeXS650C

    YamadudeXS650C Central New York XS650 XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Paul Sutton, Mailman, gggGary and 2 others like this.
  6. 650Burger

    650Burger XS650 Enthusiast

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    Thank you for the input. It looks like the other side was also repaired in a similar fashion...

    20200225_200000.jpg
     
    YamadudeXS650C likes this.
  7. YamadudeXS650C

    YamadudeXS650C Central New York XS650 XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    "I'm green, but I want to learn!"
    You've got a winning attitude !
     
  8. gggGary

    gggGary Stop that! XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Follow up; the meatball repair is going strong 8 years 8,000 miles and several valve adjusts later.
    Full disclosure, those covers also have gggGary's o-rings, so no heavy handed nut cinching. ;)
    I think a special "repair stud" here would have a market, the RH lower exhaust cover stud is the most likely to strip. It's got a short hole cuz it gets close to the exhaust port. The 1972 and later 4 hole cover on the left side avoids this tight area.
    Stud: M6 with a M6.5 tapered self cutting inner thread, a special depth install/tightening nut, and a small tube of some sort of thread lock, would be the catzPJ's.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2020
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  9. 650Burger

    650Burger XS650 Enthusiast

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    Jim likes this.
  10. gggGary

    gggGary Stop that! XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    I'm not sure that kit answers your problem? Those studs are not oversize they are the same size as the original studs. so will not tighten in your (one) stripped hole. They look to be good quality, and would work in combination with a helicoil in the stripped hole.
    :twocents: I would not disturb any sleeping dogs. Ie only replace studs that are a problem, are already loose in the head, or have badly damaged threads.
    Not directly your situation of threads completely gone but; I had another engine with (that same) stud stripped. I reinstalled it with some JB weld (original formula), let the JB weld set well, used a quality silicone o-ring in the cover, was very careful with tightening that nut, and had no further problems.
    Can't emphasise enough, good quality fresh o-rings seal well, and be careful with how much you tighten the nuts.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2020
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  11. YamadudeXS650C

    YamadudeXS650C Central New York XS650 XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    I agree with Gary.
    Bad idea to disturb any studs that are currently intact.
    The HughesHandBuilt kit does not offer you any hardware that will cure your issue.
     
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  12. 650Burger

    650Burger XS650 Enthusiast

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    Yup I had a major brain fart with that one. I'm going to go the helicoil route, so I will report back with what happens once all my stuff comes in.
    Also seems like helicoils are cool tech to know how to use!
     
    Paul Sutton, Mailman, Jim and 2 others like this.
  13. nhsteve

    nhsteve XS650 Addict XS650.com Supporter

    I had to do a similar repair myself, and went with the "Time-sert" repair, very similar to a "Keen-sert", both essentially a heli-coil. Be careful, read the directions twice. Put a rag or something around the valve spring area to keep little bits away. Take your time. You may need to drop the carb out of the way to give yourself enough working room (and if that is the case, bite the bullet and do it, as fighting for space to get the job done may jeopardize the desired result!).

    You got this.:cheers:
     
  14. Steve C

    Steve C XS650 Enthusiast

    Timesert is definitely is the way to go. Its a little spendy initially for the drill, tap & tool kit, but the additional inserts are cheap.
    My dreaded PO :cussing: knackered 3 of the 6 holes that hold on the oil filter plate with bad Helicoil repairs. In fact, one had an abandoned piece of a broken off screw that required $100 worth of machining to put right. I re-did all 6 holes with Timeserts so they can be run in and out during (FREQUENT) oil changes without worry!
    They are nice cuz they're solid pieces, not wire coils...and steel!
    IMHO, make the investment, there are plenty of 6mm threaded holes in the buttery soft aluminum on the XS...and really any bike motor out there!
    Good luck!!
     
  15. xjwmx

    xjwmx XS650 Guru Top Contributor

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    i really doubt it broke off in there. 7mm is about the right depth. probably it stripped and somebody jb'ed it in and it didn't hold. that's not the usual suspect hole, either (right front bottom). i wouldn't go around doing each hole, unless maybe if i was a pro machinist and couldn't resist. jim's idea is the best -- use some kind of standard insert. it takes practice and skill, so i would take it to a machinist to do it. if there's one close by you can ride it there on two nuts. the stud itself is a hardware store item. might have to dremel it to length. you could actually cut the head off a 6mm screw in a pinch
     
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  16. 650Burger

    650Burger XS650 Enthusiast

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    So I'm giving a small update to this thread which will I will return to when the fix fails.

    I went to drill out the hole for the helicoil to find it was already at the right size, making it impossible to carve threads into for the helicoil. I gave in to my instincts and just j-b welded a new stud in, let it cure for 48 hours and rode it about 10 miles without it falling out.
    I know it's not the best solution but since the hole has already been drilled out I felt it was worth a shot.
     
  17. YamadudeXS650C

    YamadudeXS650C Central New York XS650 XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    I think it is worth mentioning that there are two high heat JB weld products out there,
    the high heat:
    upload_2020-3-7_22-18-29.jpeg and the extreme heat,
    for exhaust manifolds and such.
    upload_2020-3-7_22-19-49.jpeg

    I just patched two small holes in the bottom of my '82 Heritage Special mufflers with the extreme heat paste.
    Looking forward to providing a report on the effectiveness of this product in a few weeks when I get it on the road.
    .
    .
     
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  18. xjwmx

    xjwmx XS650 Guru Top Contributor

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    another possibility is there are 6.3mm dia threads. it's a possibility you could make it self tap, especially if the hole had remains of threads
     
    650Burger likes this.
  19. 650Burger

    650Burger XS650 Enthusiast

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    These are definitely on the list for when my initial repair fails.
     
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  20. 650Burger

    650Burger XS650 Enthusiast

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    I'm reviving this thread since I had a confusion I think many newbies will have:
    How does one actually tap the helicoil thread in a 7mm deep blind hole when the tap is like this:

    20200325_111807.jpg

    I've seen a couple videos but the hole always seems deeper or isn't a blind hole.

    Update on the jb weld fix: It sucks.
     
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