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Rust removal from inside gas tank

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by Frank The Tank, Sep 28, 2009.

  1. gentlemanjim

    gentlemanjim More Wrenchin than Ridin

    CLR - yes I recall this being mentioned and it is cheap!! Worth a try :)
     
  2. News Flash....Lysol just on the line demanding equal time.....Lime Away on hold...
    Coca Cola waiting in the lobby....Ragu Spaghetti Sauce pulling in. Wait....what about lemon juice?

    http://www.lysol.com/cleaning-produ...m=cpc&utm_term=rust removal&utm_campaign=Rust

    Gotta go now guys.....every thread on this subject cycles through the same stuff then degenerates to collective self medication having nothing to do with the science of either medicine or pharmacy.

    There are hundreds of chemicals that will remove rust but not too many that remove only rust and then fewer still that do so easily, safely, cost effectively and in an eco-friendly way.

    Bye for now.....Blue
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2011
  3. gentlemanjim

    gentlemanjim More Wrenchin than Ridin

  4. 79yam

    79yam XS650 Addict

    im giving this a go wile the wife watches the oscars. Dust being removed from one surface to another is just more interesting to watch
     
  5. Fatman

    Fatman XS650 Addict

    kinda the samething ....:laugh:
     
  6. Milk Stone Remover is a dilute solution of Phosphoric Acid not Muriatic or Sulfuric....this is so because it needs be compatible with food processing equipment and contact with milk containing and processing equipment also for safe DIY farmer use. Blue
     
  7. Hey Blue, or anyone else for that matter.

    What about Metal Rescue? Claims that you don't have to seal a gas tank after due to it not etching the surface. What do you think about that?
     
  8. Hey Jimmy.....Sorry, I'm not familiar with "Metal Rescue" from personal experience. I'll look into it though and let you (and the forum) know of opinions formed.

    At present, I'm doing some comparative testings of chemical de-rusting systems and have been favorably impressed with "Evaporust" (nice to work with btw) rust removal and for different reasons "Rust Blast" from KBS Coatings which is step number 2 of their 3 part (clean, de-rust, seal) kit-system.....Their names "Aqua Klean"..."Rust Blast"..."Gold Seal". At first look...I like it a lot because it (Rust Blast) not only de-rusts but; etchs & leaves a zinc phosphate primer residue which both promotes adhesion of the subsequent sealer and coats the derusted metal surface to prevent flash oxidation (rusting) after de-rusting....(kind of a problem often encountered in a variety of process systems)

    I'm still waiting for things to warm up a little....kind of like painting these systems like warmer (plus 70 degree temps.) and lower humidity, as several are one component moisture curing polymers.

    In all these systems the cleaning, etching, priming, drying and surface prep & conditions are as important (if not more so) as the materials used not unlike painting or electroplating eg.

    More later.... "Later"

    "Metal Rescue" is a new de-rusting chemical material.....
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ARMOR launches Metal Rescue
    ARMOR Protective Packaging announces the launch of Metal Rescue. This rust remover is clean, safe and easy to use. It utilizes a unique and selective chelating agent to remove rust (iron oxide) without posing any health, safety or environmental concerns. For more information, visit the www.metalrescue.com or email info@armorvci.com
    www.metalrescue.com
    www.armorvci.com/portal/Uploads/WhatsNew/Metal Rescue Release April 2008.pdf
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    This "selective chelating agent" approach to reduction of iron oxide sounds very much like the
    technology employed in the product "Evaporust". Also appears to be quite similar from viewing the videos. The issue of protecting the treated surface from flash re-rusting would remain as would the question of further etching/priming for subsequent sealing/coating/tank lining. Blue
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2011
  9. I couldn't see evidence of that claim on their site Jimmy. In fact they seem to recommend either encapulating the de-rusted part in a package of VCI film or coating with their "Dry Coat" to protect the de-rusted surface from rerusting. In other word
    if there is not protection I would expect the unprotected metal surface to re-rust in the presence of moisture rather quickly

    Per Se....the question of gas tank lining is not addressed from what I found so far. Blue
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2011
  10. xjwmx

    xjwmx XS650 Guru Top Contributor

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    Blue, since you're a chemist I have a question. When these tanks came from the factory were they not bare steel? If you removed the loose rust by tumbling, etc., and then gave the remaining surface rust a treatment that converts the rust to something benign, say iron phosphate, couldn't you consider the tank as good or better than new at that point?
     
  11. I think someone else got overzealous in telling me about it and that part stuck in my head. Still though I would like to know how well the stuff works. What do you think about its ability compared to others as you put a gas tank on one side for 4 hours then flip it for another 4 hours?
     
  12. Great questions......First of all "that all steel gas tanks were supplied uncoated" is incorrect. There were/are a variety of coatings used to protect the surfaces of fuel tanks from oxidation; inside and out. Just as people seem to assume that "tin cans" interior surfaces are tin or aluminum or iron or steel uncoated....they aren't! Whole separate technology of tank, can and container lining materials

    Steel motorcycle fuel tanks were/are made with coatings applied inside and out. Moreover, when that coating is damaged, broken through, chemically attacked etc. the exposed metal can then oxidize. If that metal is iron and it oxidized to the ferric +++ oxide state it turns red and we call it "rust" but guess what...if it is oxidized to only the ferrous ++ state it's black and that's rust too. Here's the problem... both forms of rust are actually more "benign" or stable than the unprotected metal surface underneath them. These "rusts" are simply comparatively loosened by-products of oxidation which indicate that the metallic sub-surface is being chemically attacked.

    So, to the motorcycle and operator two problems result....1. That the tank is being corrosively attacked and eroded. 2. That the particulate by products oxides of the reactions are fouling the filters, metering devices, orifices, petcocks, carburetors etc. As to iron phosphate after converting the oxides to a phosphate, it's only redeeming feature, if that is one, is that it's a little more loosely attached ie more removeable. Either way remove them or encapsulate them or they'll foul things too. Then protect the steel that's left of the tank or it will be subject to renewed oxidation. Inside or outside surfaces...'es macht kein untershieb'. The iron don't know; if water and oxygen get to it, it rusts

    The challenge then is to remove the products of oxidation, stop the oxidative reaction and protect the metallic surface from further oxidation. Blue
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2011
  13. One problem... fouling by the by oxides or (converted by products) of oxidative reactions.

    Another and bigger one....the already thin walled unprotected metallic gas tank is being corroded by oxidation. No, it would not be as good as new for there is a substantially lesser and decreasing amount of steel to be a tank.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2011
  14. It should work real well as a de-ruster Jimmy and that technique of rotating that immersion/exposure should work well too. Do be aware that when de-rusted the exposed metallic surface is going to "flash rust" again real quickly. It is therefore a very good idea to get the surface real dry quickly, then etched, primed, recoated/sealed pretty quickly.

    Remember all...the RUST you see isn't the cause of the oxidative corrosion, it's the result of a process you can't see. Keeping the oxidation process from reforming is:

    Where the etchant-primer and new sealant/coating thing comes in. Best, Blue
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2011
  15. Gotcha. Great stuff Blue. Thank You!
     
  16. Here's a flow chart from KBS Coatings which describes all the steps that a good cleaning, de-rusting, etching/priming & sealing process needs to address. I think it's pretty helpful in understanding what needs be done. Regardless of whether you choose to use their products or not.

    I have just received my first order of their products kit system and will shortly be using them and comparing the process and results to the one I've chosen to use up till now. [That's been based on using in steps a combination of Milk Stone Remover (MSR a dilute solution of phosphoric acid) and "Red Kote" tank sealer] Blue
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Apr 1, 2011
  17. Backroader

    Backroader XS650 Addict

    I recently aquired a 1967 Honda CD125 twin. An extremely rare bike and not too many places for parts. The tank is in pretty rough shape, taken a cup of rust out and now started the electrolysis and sofar the process is working fine.

    Will post some photos some.
     
  18. PetesPonies

    PetesPonies XS650 Addict

    As I had suggested early on in this thread . . . I recently acquired a 1957 Sportster tank. It is extremely rare as well. I was happy to find one. Along with 9 layers of paint and a multitude of dents, it was badly rusted inside. As a shook it, it talked to me :) So after shaking out what I could, I poured in a phosphoric acid. I left the acid inside for 5 or 6 days. I turned it to another position every day or two. But after the time was up, all loose rust was dissolved and what was left just a "rough" surface inside. I had to do some repairs at that time, some welding and dent pulling. But when I finished, I poured in Master Series silver. I rotated the tank around , spreading the MS everywhere, poured out the excess and I'm done. I use Master Series in my restoration business and it is impervious to gasoline also. Its a good material to put inside the tank.
     
  19. I posted this a while back, but will post again for those that missed it. I do a lot of older bikes, most of which have rust in the tanks. I use RUSTECO. This stuff is GREAT. 1Remove petcock and install cork, plug, etc.
    Pour rusteco into tank, to the top
    Place tank into a large plastic tote and put lid on it
    Set out in the sun for a couple days
    Pour Rusteco out of tanks ,back into its container, thru a strainer to remove loose debris
    Rinse tank with fresh water, I use the wand at the car wash
    Pour in some gas-oil mix to prevent flash rust,slosh around. Done

    This stuff is so safe, You dont have to use gloves and there are no shipping restritions on it. IT IS SAFE FOR PAINT,RUBBER AND PLASTICS. I spilled some on the Triumph tank and just wiped it off, no worries. They also make a Gel, for Marine use. www.rusteco.com
     

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  20. I used baking soda and it seems to be working fine
     

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