can't see what you are using for airfilters lets see some pics of engine carbs etc???
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Shakedown breakdown ‘83 sputtering
- Thread starter hermanlifer
- Start date
hermanlifer
XS650 Enthusiast
Pics
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That's great! Maybe you'd like to see a trace of the driver/coil voltage?
(Post #49)
http://www.xs650.com/threads/an-led-ignition-timing-light-experiment.44586/page-3#post-487661
hermanlifer
XS650 Enthusiast
Ok. After testing everything I figured the diaphragms in the bs34s were the culprit. Borrowed a set of vm34s from a buddy. Strapped em on, fires right up...but still sputters at mid-high rpm!!! So I’m thankful I didn’t just throw money at new carbs. But I do like these round slides..easier to work on and more simple and streamlined on the bike. Soooooooo..I’m ordering a new coil! This one tests ok but could be failing under load. I don’t suspect the magnet on the rotor, this one is new from mikes and worked great for the initial shakedown. Seems if that was bad or too weak it would’ve never worked at all. This is the stock coil so it’s due anyhow. Eventually I’ll have this old gal running!!!
Man mine is running great after a full rebuild on the BS34's. Not just a clean but throttle shaft seals too. The new to me slides and diaphragms are in great shape so all is working A1!!
hermanlifer
XS650 Enthusiast
Well. Well.
Replaced the ignition coil. No change.
Replaced tci ignition unit. No change.
Reset cam tension and valves. No change.
Checked float levels with clear tube. All good.
Unplugged regulator/rectifier to eliminate alternator. And it runs perfect. Perfect. Flawless. Ripping up and down the road. I haven’t felt that in so long! I’m beyond excited to finally get a positive result from troubleshooting.
Now. Why does the alternator interfere with the ignition. I’m currently working, but after work I’ll check for shorts or bad connections. I also read about someone switching polarity of the rotor by swapping brush wires.
Here is why I didn’t suspect this. The rotor is new, and worked great initially.
So I worked around replacing everything else.
I thought if the reg/rec was bad I wouldn’t get any charge. I do have a strong charging system, just somehow it fucks with my ignition system. Time to dig through. I see the light, I will prevail!! Thanks to this forum for the hints and tips.
Replaced the ignition coil. No change.
Replaced tci ignition unit. No change.
Reset cam tension and valves. No change.
Checked float levels with clear tube. All good.
Unplugged regulator/rectifier to eliminate alternator. And it runs perfect. Perfect. Flawless. Ripping up and down the road. I haven’t felt that in so long! I’m beyond excited to finally get a positive result from troubleshooting.
Now. Why does the alternator interfere with the ignition. I’m currently working, but after work I’ll check for shorts or bad connections. I also read about someone switching polarity of the rotor by swapping brush wires.
Here is why I didn’t suspect this. The rotor is new, and worked great initially.
So I worked around replacing everything else.
I thought if the reg/rec was bad I wouldn’t get any charge. I do have a strong charging system, just somehow it fucks with my ignition system. Time to dig through. I see the light, I will prevail!! Thanks to this forum for the hints and tips.
hermanlifer
XS650 Enthusiast
I understand how that would be necessary on an old stock rotor but this is three months old and worked perfectly at first. Of course I’ll try it out, anything to get back on the road.
There's a couple postings in here about the trigger magnets on the *new* rotors being weak. Have a look at Mac's adventures:
http://www.xs650.com/threads/10-cent-charging-diagnosis-please.51924/
http://www.xs650.com/threads/10-cent-charging-diagnosis-please.51924/
hermanlifer
XS650 Enthusiast
Thanks for the links. I’ll believe it being so odd. I was really really stumped. My first time building a motorcycle, and failed on shakedown. This summer has been super dry and hot..and I’ve been wrenching and working, betcha it’ll storm the day it’s running perfect!! Haha.
IIRC those "new" rotors were slightly thinner.
hermanlifer
XS650 Enthusiast
The magnet worked! Revs are strong, battery charges good. Passed the up and down my street test today. Rigorous testing this weekend.
What a saga. And a bizarre failure, you’d think spending 153 on a new rotor (to solve charging problem) wouldn’t fuck up the ignition circuit. I got this rotor through MikesXS.
But I’m learning nothing goes as expected when building motorcycles. Now I’ve got new coil, wires, etc...even a spare tci unit. I’ll update after it passes hard ride tests. Only thing I’m wary of is the magnet flying off, so I’ll keep an eye on the strength of its attachment as time goes. I used jb weld steel stick. A worry free ride on this bike? Someday.
What a saga. And a bizarre failure, you’d think spending 153 on a new rotor (to solve charging problem) wouldn’t fuck up the ignition circuit. I got this rotor through MikesXS.
But I’m learning nothing goes as expected when building motorcycles. Now I’ve got new coil, wires, etc...even a spare tci unit. I’ll update after it passes hard ride tests. Only thing I’m wary of is the magnet flying off, so I’ll keep an eye on the strength of its attachment as time goes. I used jb weld steel stick. A worry free ride on this bike? Someday.
Would it be worth it to reverse-engineer and examine the trigger coil inputs to the TCI, looking for age or heat related input signal damping?
hermanlifer
XS650 Enthusiast
When I get caught up on work I’ll set up the scope and see what I can do.
hermanlifer
XS650 Enthusiast
Hard ride test update.
Magnet flew off, 30 miles into a ride. Set another one on there and waited for jb weld to set. Yeah I took a kit. Got home fine. Need a permanent fix.
I’ll try to set the magnet into the rotor. Should be stronger there. MikesXS got an email from me. They said they’ll inform the manufacturer of the rotor, and they wanna give me a free t shirt!
Magnet flew off, 30 miles into a ride. Set another one on there and waited for jb weld to set. Yeah I took a kit. Got home fine. Need a permanent fix.
I’ll try to set the magnet into the rotor. Should be stronger there. MikesXS got an email from me. They said they’ll inform the manufacturer of the rotor, and they wanna give me a free t shirt!
Best to try to find a good used oem one. The so called new rotor failed me too....
hermanlifer
XS650 Enthusiast
Ok . Another round of updates.
Decided to hack the magnet out of my old dead rotor, wrecking the face to bits in the process. Installed it in the hole left in my New rotor, where i drilled that magnet out. Drilling a magnet was cool, sparks and molten shit flying. Of course it didn’t fix the rig though. New brushes on the alternator, and this magnet and im back to misfiring. So. I finally checked something, and sure enough the new rotor is thinner than the oem. So regardless of magnet strength we are still out of range for the pick up coil to work effectively. So I added another magnet to get me to the flat track rally today so I can have fun..and I’ve got an oem rotor on order from a helpful forum member. I’ve had a lengthy email dialogue with MikesXS and they seem determined to solve this on their end.
Decided to hack the magnet out of my old dead rotor, wrecking the face to bits in the process. Installed it in the hole left in my New rotor, where i drilled that magnet out. Drilling a magnet was cool, sparks and molten shit flying. Of course it didn’t fix the rig though. New brushes on the alternator, and this magnet and im back to misfiring. So. I finally checked something, and sure enough the new rotor is thinner than the oem. So regardless of magnet strength we are still out of range for the pick up coil to work effectively. So I added another magnet to get me to the flat track rally today so I can have fun..and I’ve got an oem rotor on order from a helpful forum member. I’ve had a lengthy email dialogue with MikesXS and they seem determined to solve this on their end.
Attachments
Well they aren't. Those thin rotors aren't a new thing but hey if email makes you happy. . . .
Gluing on magnets: Use an epoxy glue with out any fillers e.g. plan old clear Araldite type. Clean the area near where the magnet is to be stuck with a light sanding and wipe clean with a solvent. Put a big drop of glue on the old magnet and place the new magnet on top and push into place firmly. The new magnet should be left surrounded by a ring of glue to hold it firmly. I used a 0.5mm thick magnet so there is less force acting on it and the glue. Several have commented that the 24 hour glues give a stronger hold than the 15 minute versions.
hermanlifer
XS650 Enthusiast
Oem rotor on this morning. Fires up, runs great, battery is charging. Off for a local ride.
5 miles later. Stop for gas. Bike won’t start. No power? Pull over to check fuses. Suddenly smoke billowing from electronic box. Lots of smoke. I know that smell. Not a good smell. Something shorting? Pop out fuses. Still smoking hard! Unhook battery, well try to. I find it’s a molten puddle of plastic and goo!!! Holy shit. Stand back and watch it smoke till it cools into a solid unrecognizable mass of trash, fuses into the battery box.
It was a ballistic brand lithium ion dry cell. Was. Now it’s a pile of chemicals and I can’t get it free of the bike. Gonna have to cut apart this custom battery tray and electronic box we built last winter. It’s like I’m not ever gonna catch a break, at least it’s winter coming and I can tinker while it rains.
Ideas on why it melted. Overcharging, or random failure?
5 miles later. Stop for gas. Bike won’t start. No power? Pull over to check fuses. Suddenly smoke billowing from electronic box. Lots of smoke. I know that smell. Not a good smell. Something shorting? Pop out fuses. Still smoking hard! Unhook battery, well try to. I find it’s a molten puddle of plastic and goo!!! Holy shit. Stand back and watch it smoke till it cools into a solid unrecognizable mass of trash, fuses into the battery box.
It was a ballistic brand lithium ion dry cell. Was. Now it’s a pile of chemicals and I can’t get it free of the bike. Gonna have to cut apart this custom battery tray and electronic box we built last winter. It’s like I’m not ever gonna catch a break, at least it’s winter coming and I can tinker while it rains.
Ideas on why it melted. Overcharging, or random failure?
