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Shakedown breakdown ‘83 sputtering

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by hermanlifer, Jun 21, 2018.

  1. TwoManyXS1Bs

    TwoManyXS1Bs I like old ignitions

    Sounds like another of the continuing saga of li-ion battery failures. Cell phones, hoverboards, e-cigs. All self-destructing, YouTube entertainment. Haven't seen anything to predict if/when they fail...
     
  2. hermanlifer

    hermanlifer XS650 Enthusiast

    Yeah it looked like the videos I’ve seen of hover boards dying, soooo much smoke. Also the battery came with the original boxes of random parts, I think it’s old, manufactured in 2013 just never used.
     
    TwoManyXS1Bs likes this.
  3. Superjet

    Superjet XS650 Addict

    Man that sucks lots. Did you check voltages before you went out? Sounds like an overcharging thing going on there.
     
  4. hermanlifer

    hermanlifer XS650 Enthusiast

    Yeah I checked voltage, making sure the “new” rotor was gonna work right. It passes the resistance test at 5.5ohms so I expected it to work properly. Fired right up and had 13 volts at idle, increased rpm raised up to mid 14s. Looked strong and happy. I didn’t monitor the voltages for long, as the rotor was the only new variable and I’d been riding around with my jb weld magnet rotor doing just fine.
    After I get the dead battery out of my frame I’ll clean up the wiring and start it up with an extra car battery I’ve got, I’ll monitor the voltage and determine if the voltage regulator failed or anything else.
     
  5. Paul Sutton

    Paul Sutton Hen Pecked

    What does overcharging mean …… ???? For a Lead battery I understand it means too much water loss from the electrolyte due to excessive electrolysis as a result of the charging voltage being too high. What does it mean for a Lithium battery? I understand that a Lithium battery has its own charging regulator which draws currently from the harness and monitors each battery cell independently. So how does it overcharge?
     
    hermanlifer likes this.
  6. TwoManyXS1Bs

    TwoManyXS1Bs I like old ignitions

    Paul, after a battery is technically "fully charged", if you continue to push current thru it, that's overcharging. A lead/acid battery can reach 20+ vdc, and the current produces heat, promoting boilover. Similar with other battery types.

    The "good" li-ion batteries include an internal regulator. Costs more. Without it, you're on your own to manage it...
     
    hermanlifer likes this.
  7. Paul Sutton

    Paul Sutton Hen Pecked

    When I have searched for overcharging I only ever found the mention of excessive water loss at voltages above 14.7V. Shall start another search in old autoelectric books, they are always pretty interesting to read. As for Lithium cells they should have good regulators built in, did the melted remains reveal a PC board with several wires running off to each cell?
     
  8. hermanlifer

    hermanlifer XS650 Enthusiast

    Attached Files:

    Paul Sutton likes this.
  9. Superjet

    Superjet XS650 Addict

    I read that they need plenty of cooling. If it got real hot it could of killed it. Something to think about. I got mine installed under my seat which allows it to cool real good.
     
    Paul Sutton likes this.
  10. TwoManyXS1Bs

    TwoManyXS1Bs I like old ignitions

    The currently modern construction methods are supposed to prevent those battery fires. Might just consider it as an unfortunate artifact of an older design. I'd want to be sure that any replacement battery is built to the newer/safer specs.

    Li-ion batteries with internal regulation are usually found in portable electronics, with much lower current draws as compared to motorcycle starters. As such, I wouldn't expect to find any motorcycle batteries with internal regulation. And, I'd strongly recommend getting up to speed on Li-ion battery charging parameters (a bit different from lead/acid), maintenance, and monitoring..
     
    Paul Sutton likes this.
  11. Paul Sutton

    Paul Sutton Hen Pecked

    Hermanlifer, thank you for the photos. So glad the battery didn't take out the rest of the bike. Perhaps this was just bad luck based on older Li battery design. Are you able to just use a Lead battery instead? I spent several hours this morning reading up on them and find I have been treating my battery in a nice manner.
     
    TwoManyXS1Bs likes this.
  12. hermanlifer

    hermanlifer XS650 Enthusiast

    I don’t have much space so whatever battery I use must be small. Also I’m kick start only so I don’t need a large battery, just reliable. I’d switch to a battery free design but I have already invested so much into rebuilding this system. Two new rotors, ignition coil, tci ignition unit, new fuse box, total rewire and hand made harness, brushes...plugs wires etc...
     
  13. Paul Sutton

    Paul Sutton Hen Pecked

    I wonder if you would benefit from an onboard ammeter initially set between the battery and the ignition just in case there is something intermittently placing a heavy load on your battery. Maybe the headlight is draining too much ?? Add up your system current load just in case it seriously exceeds the alternator output at idle. My electric problems started when I fitted a 60/55W H4 bulb. Have since had to drop back to a 35/35W H4 which effectively matches the original specification of light output but at lower current (35W H4 halogen almost equivalent to the original 50W sealed beam light output).
     
    hermanlifer likes this.
  14. TwoManyXS1Bs

    TwoManyXS1Bs I like old ignitions

    Last edited: Sep 15, 2018
    Paul Sutton likes this.

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