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So it begins.....

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by sweatybetty89, Aug 13, 2021.

  1. 5twins

    5twins XS650 Guru Top Contributor

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    A worn chain and/or front guide can change the timing on you but the way yours keeps on changing even after you reset it may point to a different issue, maybe with your advance unit. The advance unit is located by a pin in the cam. This locks it in that correct position so the timing is right. If that pin has fallen out or the advance unit has come loose, it may be moving out of the correct position, rotating on the cam instead of turning with it, throwing your timing off again and again each time it moves.
     
  2. sweatybetty89

    sweatybetty89 XS650 Addict

    Yeah I thought of that. The motor is out at this point so it's getting gone through. Going to change the ignition system over. Would using the aftermarket electronic advance be good way to go?
     
  3. 5twins

    5twins XS650 Guru Top Contributor

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    Yes, an electronic advance is a good way to go if you find your advance unit is messed up. I continued to use mine because it was OK. I keep it and the advance rod well lubed so it has always worked fine.

    As you tear down your motor, one of the first things you'll be removing are the ignition components (points plate, advance rod, advance unit). You'll know shortly whether the advance unit is in good shape and if it was the cause of your shifting timing.
     
  4. sweatybetty89

    sweatybetty89 XS650 Addict

    For sure gotta roll with different advance. The tabs on the sides that keep the weights from going too far were real brittle and snapped off
     
  5. sweatybetty89

    sweatybetty89 XS650 Addict

    the set from mikes seems to be a good option looks to be real plug and play the one for the red xs charge unit and the mechanical advance unit (basically the same thing i have now) Is this a good option?
     
  6. 5twins

    5twins XS650 Guru Top Contributor

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    I thought you were getting rid of the advance unit and going with an E-advance electronic one? You may have no choice as it seems those standard red units are out of stock. If I needed to replace my advance unit, I would make the change to an electronic one. I would get the basic $130 E-advance electronic ignition kit (ignition unit only) and pair it with a used Honda MP08 coil.

    https://www.mikesxs.net/xs-charge-xs650-gen-ii-e-advancer-electronic-ignition-1980-1984.html

    I don't know why Mike's specs this for '80 - '84 models only. It clearly needs an advance rod for install so should fit and work on all models. But, the kit seems to be missing a part, the fitting needed to replace the advance unit and lock the advance rod to the cam. I would inquire about that because you couldn't mount it without that item.
     
  7. sweatybetty89

    sweatybetty89 XS650 Addict

    that is what i wanted to go with and i saw the 80-84 thing as well and it kinda swayed me from wanting to do it. i also am wanting to change the braker points system to electronic as well. is the xs charge system any good for that or would boyer or pamco be a better option? and besides that you mentioned earlier that if the advance unit was not set in the right place or if it was loose that it could throw some things off. i looked at the marks on the back plate and the center unit its self and they were aligned. the lock disc was loose one day and i had to tighten it back up. If i removed both the advance unit and the braker points plate the orientation of the cam rod should still be 12 o clock on cylinder one and 6 o clock on cylinder 2 at TDC ?
     
  8. X77S

    X77S Let's do this!

    Is the above a complete ignition unit? I assumed it was just an advance/retard unit and still needed an ignition.
     
  9. sweatybetty89

    sweatybetty89 XS650 Addict

    Yeah I'm doing an entire swap
     
  10. sweatybetty89

    sweatybetty89 XS650 Addict

    Removed my advanced unit and this what I found
     

    Attached Files:

  11. sweatybetty89

    sweatybetty89 XS650 Addict

    Found this In the sump
     

    Attached Files:

  12. teamWicked

    teamWicked XS650 Addict Top Contributor

    Looks like is all there. Is that a good thing?
     
  13. sweatybetty89

    sweatybetty89 XS650 Addict

    It was just chilling in the sump no idea where it came from
     
  14. 5twins

    5twins XS650 Guru Top Contributor

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    Looks like the copper damper washer from the cam chain tensioner rod, but I have no idea how it could have fallen off.
     
    gggGary and sweatybetty89 like this.
  15. sweatybetty89

    sweatybetty89 XS650 Addict

    That's what I thought too looking in the manual. Did you see the back plate of that advance unit. I think I found my thing problem possibly?
     
    gggGary likes this.
  16. 5twins

    5twins XS650 Guru Top Contributor

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    Yes, that messed up slot on the back of your advance unit was causing the timing to change. The advance unit wouldn't lock in at the correct position.
     
    sweatybetty89 and gggGary like this.
  17. sweatybetty89

    sweatybetty89 XS650 Addict

    5twins what were you talking about that I would need to make or ask ikes about if I were to order the e advance unit from mikesxs and can I use my existing cam rod with the after market ignition and and advance unit?
     
  18. 5twins

    5twins XS650 Guru Top Contributor

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    Normally, when you fit an electronic ignition with an e-advance in it, you have to remove your old mechanical advance unit. But then you need a way to tie the advance rod to the cam, lock them together. The kit usually provides a fitting for this that replaces the advance unit. I don't see any such fitting in any of the new ignition pics on the MikesXS site. Here are mounting instructions for the old Pamco w/ e-advance. Right at the beginning, the first pic shows the special fitting needed to replace the old advance unit .....

    https://www.mikesxs.net/manuals/ElectronicAdvancerInstructions.html

    So yes, you will continue to use your old advance rod. But it won't rotate any more like it used to for advancing the timing. The timing will be advanced electronically by the e-advance. So, you need that special little fitting to lock the advance rod to the cam so they rotate together, and like I said, I don't see it in any of the new ignition pics.
     
    sweatybetty89 likes this.
  19. Jan_P

    Jan_P XS650 Guru Top Contributor

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    On Boyer Bransden there is a threaded rod and a nut
    Left side is the triggering magnets
    Right side a stepped washer and a Nut
    If the nut is loose the rod , and magnet can be rotated freely inside the cam bore
    And the ignition can be anywhere ..not necessarily even close to right

    Tight the nut and the Rod / Magnet is fixed inside the Cam and Follow its movement.
    There is an Adjustment Possibility since the loosening and re tightening can change ignition timing.
    There is an built in adjustment " Window " ,,but that Window can be Moved via loosening that nut and rotate the rod with magnets a bit
    I got an rewound Alternator with the ignition marks off.So I don't adjust via strobe light I could do it .
    But I check for Starting Difficulties / Kickback / Shooting in the Exhaust / Throttle response / Engine Knocking.
    Setting it at something I like .If not there is the aforementioned adjustment.
    As I have and saw on the forum a little later makes the bike run smoother




    [​IMG]
     
    Raymond likes this.
  20. 5twins

    5twins XS650 Guru Top Contributor

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