Split carb mounts after 3 months

Everyone:

I posted a message to the YAM650 mailing list on Sunday, after I got a message from Don on Saturday telling me he was going to stop working on the project because of the problem with the metal covers. I haven't checked in here since Saturday before I got his message. I have been busy with other things, and have been so aggravated with this I had to step away from it for a few days.

Here is the message:

I got the following message from Don James yesterday when I got home from running errands. I was floored.


>Wade:
>
> It seems to me that there is a Big problem with these carb holders. Everyone wants to put those metal covers on, and I can tell you that will not work with our carb sockets. It seems they feel they must have this metal cover, so I am halting production and will try to sell what I have on eBay, but I will make it a point to tell folks that they will not work with a metal cover. Sorry this project didn't work out the way I figured it would, but that is the way the collector car market is too. The customer wants "original'. I knew mine would be a little different. Best to wait to see if Mike's gets his problems fixed.
>
> Thanks for all your help in all of this Wade, and I hope you can make those >parts I sent you work on your bike.
>
>Donald James
>JBM Industries
>Kent, Ohio 44240 USA
>www.jbmindustries.com
>330-678-9537


I was disappointed and angry. I didn't reply to him until today, as I didn't want to say anything I might regret later. I didn't post anything here, at XS650.com, or at the XS650 Garage, for the same reason. I had only just posted the announcement for these at both those places Friday night! I did take down the survey yesterday, though, as I didn't want to waste anyone else's time. Here is my reply to Don today:


>Don:
>
>I was floored when i got home yesterday afternoon and read your message. It seems like you have gone to a lot of trouble to abandon the project before the first set got mounted on a bike. I spent a few minutes yesterday afternoon sanding a little rubber off the right socket from the first set you sent, and got the cover to fit. On the short side of the socket. the cover stuck up a little above the rubber surface. I measured the height of the socket at that point, then measured the MikeXS socket. Yours is about 0.025"-0.030" shorter than Mike's at that point. This is probably not a big deal.
>
>I read a post by 'pops' on the XS650 Garage not long after I read your message regarding his conversations with you about sockets for the older (1970->1973) XS650s. I saw that you and he discussed the covers too.
>
>You should consider that the Mike's holders require that the covers be modified to clear the vacuum tubes in order to fit, but nobody has been complaining about that. That is more work (I did it to mine) than a little sanding of rubber.
>
>I got your package yesterday, but after reading your message, didn't see any point in opening it.
>
>I hope you reconsider your decision.
>
>Wade


I got the following reply from him today:


>Wade,
>
> You should not need to modify a part that I sell. I didn't know anything about a cover and when you sent that photo I knew right away that they wouldn't work right, as I really did not worry about the outside of the socket, and in fact made it thicker in many places.
> The owners are convinced they must have the covers, or go to the trouble of making brackets to support the carbs as they think they are too heavy. ( I don't think so, and I bought carburetors of both types off of Ebay so I could see what they are.) The problem is that the customer not only wants, but thinks he needs those covers to prevent cracking of the rubber. They have certainly been told this for many years, and I feel sure that using those soft Chinese sockets with lots of fillers, this is true. I have been all through all this with the airplanes, and while nobody has ever made "covers" that I know of, they have made various brackets, hooks, and springs to try to get the sockets to last. ( The 2 cycle engines we use really shake at idle.) I do think it possible to add extensions and heavy air filters that might overstress a socket, but I don't think it came from the factory like that.
I am glad to hear that you were able to use my sockets on your bike, but bikes with the 34 mm carbs could never get those covers on, unless they had 38 mm covers and modify the sockets like you did. I can't afford to make another mold just for 34 sockets. I only got 2 people interested in them.
My whole thinking was that they would bolt the socket on and use a hose clamp to tighten it on the carburetor, and that by doing this I could make just 2 molds to make right and left, changing a mandrel in the core for different carbs. The mistake was that I just didn't know enough about these motorcycles. It was a lot more complex than I thought.
That is the reason I shelved the project, as I think Mike will try to get improvements to his rubber, and he has good tooling. Anything I make would need to be tested extensively to convince customers of a good product.
>
>Don James
>JBM Industries
>3761 Morley Drive
>Kent, OHIO 44240 USA
>330-678-9537
>www.jbmindustries.com

I have other things to say, just not right now. I apologize for getting everyone's expectations up. I thought that offering him my old carb holders to use as models would help get his project going, and help make a better product. I also thought that creating the survey would give him a better idea of what the potential market would be. We got some good feedback, even though the survey wasn't up very long.

Discuss.

Wade Dunham
Click to expand...

It seems like the project may not be completely dead, from what I have been reading here and at the XS650 Garage (I haven't had any contact with Don since his last message above). I'd love to see this thing get going again. I can reactivate the survey if anyone would like to send their feedback to Don to let him know how many people just want a good, durable product.

Wade Dunham
 
Wade -

First, thank you for going to all this trouble and providing us with details and updates.

Secondly, is the main problematic feature of the holders degradation of the rubber due to the effect of ethanol fuel, or is it the lack of carb support due to lack of metal sleeves? Either could cause cracking, I suppose, but my main concern has been the deleterious effect of ethanol because I suspect even I could make some wire supports to mitigate the weight issue.

I join other early bike owners ('73 TX) in the frustration of not having access to OEM (fit and durability) holders, so I recently installed a set of K&Ls from OldBikeBarn that supposedly meet OEM standards, according to their website. I have only fired the bike up once with them though, due to weather, so I don't know how they'll fare.

I suppose I'm watching this all closely because I'm trying to decide whether to test what I have on there now (the angle is slightly outward from stock, and there's the ethanol question), or order a set of '74s from 650Central, whose angle will be wrong, but the rubber will be safe.

Hope I'm not further convoluting the issue by asking and trying to recap!

TC
 
TeeCat said:
...Secondly, is the main problematic feature of the holders degradation of the rubber due to the effect of ethanol fuel, or is it the lack of carb support due to lack of metal sleeves?...TC
Click to expand...

The main problem is the degradation of the rubber due to the ethanol. Externally, the Mike's holders look fine, but when you look at the inside, they are coming apart. They almost look like they have been mangled with a screwdriver. I haven't run mine without the metal covers, and I use the original airboxes, so I haven't seen a problem with support. I also haven't read anything about problems with support using the Mike's holders.

TeeCat said:
I join other early bike owners ('73 TX) in the frustration of not having access to OEM (fit and durability) holders...TC
Click to expand...

From what I'm reading at the XS650 Garage, Don seems willing to look at making the holders for the older bikes. I guess he just needs a little more encouragement! :)

I'll reactivate the survey tomorrow morning. I'll have to post a new URL because the old one won't work.

TeeCat said:
Hope I'm not further convoluting the issue by asking and trying to recap!TC
Click to expand...

Not at all. Please feel free to ask away. I'm not an expert on these things in any way, but I have had two sets of these holders go south on me, both with only about 3 months use on them.

BTW, I'm not affiliated with Don or JBM Industries in any way. I don't get anything from the sale of these, but Don has graciously offered to let me keep a couple of the first sets of holders he produced. Like you, (and everyone else here) I'm just hoping to be able to buy some good, durable parts at a reasonable price. I would like to see Don make a decent profit on these, though. Maybe he'd be willing to take on other projects if this works out well. :)

Wade
 
80xs650 said:
The main problem is the degradation of the rubber due to the ethanol. Externally, the Mike's holders look fine, but when you look at the inside, they are coming apart. They almost look like they have been mangled with a screwdriver. both with only about 3 months use on them.
Click to expand...
Refer to the pictures in post #1 of this thread for an example of this.
Metal shrouds were being used but running pod air filters. Took just 3 months & VERY low mileage for this to happen to mine!

Thanks for your efforts on this one Wade, its appreciated :thumbsup:
Kev
 
Just to let you guys know I will be sending in a sample of a stock holder and metal cage for the early bikes 1970,1971,1972,1973 for Don to look at. He is also interested in doing these. As you know this boot is straight compared to the later boots which are angled. I will keep you informed. I am sure there are alot of older bikes out there in need of boots. I will ask him if it's possible to add a vacuum port on it.
 
Last edited:
Mellowyellow said:
Here is another solution from tc bros seems a little expensive but sure would look nice. I just bought the problem carb holders from mikes xs about 2 months ago and havent used them yet but i will until they crack. Thanks for the warning guys I will be watching them.

http://www.tcbroschoppers.com/id37.html
Click to expand...

I have just fitted TC 's inlets and I think they are good. No more worries or cost replacing standard type inlets as I have gone through 3 sets . I run pods so they are the way to go.
 
- i just had another set go last week :mad:...lasted 6 months :wtf:...shit product :cussing:...need a better solution :umm:
 
I've got some TC inlets for my VM36 but the inner diameter is only 34mm.

Concerning split of carb mounts, this is probably due to poor quality (i.e. low cost) rubber : fuel and heat resistance has a cost.
 
Guys, I have not been able to get in for a bit, but was wondering if there's any more news on this from the fellow who was considering making straight holders for us early bike owners.

Tks -

TC
 
Teecat, good timing. I have been working with Don James on that project. I just recieved the carb boots yesterday and was just going into the garage. The boots look very nice. I sent my stock boot and cover to Don. The boot from Don uses a steel backing plate. I think Yamaha used a alum plate. The stock cover will fit over the boot with a little material removed at the flange ears. He is using up the plates he ordered for the original project. I will be posting pictures probably in a few hours. Don has just made a few more sets for sale. It would be great to support him and his products. Take a look at his web site. I don't think he has the straight ones listed yet. jbmindustries.com

*****Pictures and link posted in shops catagory ***************
 
Last edited:
I checked out those carb holder's, & they look pretty good.The price isn't so bad either, esp. for something thats going to work with the methanol thats in the U.S. fuels now.
 
The TCbros aluminum intake manifolds that replace the old rubber ones say that they will not fit stock 34mm CV, stock 38mm carbs? Has anyone tried them. Why will they not work with them but will work with the aftermarket 34-36mm Mikuni VM Roundslide carbs?

thanks.
Chuck
 
- you mean these?

dsc05021.jpg
 

Similar threads

2ManyHobbies
77 xs650 won't start after mods
Replies
19
Views
534
sleddog83
sleddog83
P
Semi-generic carb theory question
Replies
8
Views
726
Pat D
P
H
has compression, spark, and fuel but won't fire / start - cam chain issue?
2
Replies
36
Views
1K
Jan_P
J
M
Not starting after a few small maintenance jobs. I’m stumped.
2
Replies
33
Views
1K
Jim
Jim
750triples
XS 750: A Tale of Carb Rejetting Woes
Replies
1
Views
448
5twins
5twins
Back
Top