Starter Gear Fix!

I got this replacement from https://www.mikesxs.net/. I did exactly what was recommended from garyr (Thank you!) in the 1st page of this post. I pinched down the wire tab on the gear on a bench vice. I pinched it to the point it fit in the factory slot where the oem tab was configured. This site is a blessing!
Did you use this slot with the arrow or the saddle in Red?
 

Attachments

  • 2E0A982C-3E2A-4CC7-94CA-110E960C704E.jpeg
    2E0A982C-3E2A-4CC7-94CA-110E960C704E.jpeg
    101.4 KB · Views: 168
I got this replacement from https://www.mikesxs.net/. I did exactly what was recommended from garyr (Thank you!) in the 1st page of this post. I pinched down the wire tab on the gear on a bench vice. I pinched it to the point it fit in the factory slot where the oem tab was configured. This site is a blessing!
I read even with that Mikes setup the loop or finger still must be squeezed in a vice. Is that correct?
 
Just finished my repair but I left the tang of the wishbone clip outside the groove like it shows in the update repair bulletin
Those starters are just a tad noisy but without the grinding and it kicking out it's alright
I just put the petcocks and choke on get suited up and by the time I get back to the bike to kick start it
I don't know if the bike starts better that way (fuel getting to where it needs to be ?) with the wait
Maybe mojo magic :umm:
You left tang outside the groove meaning where the arrow is pointing to or where the loop is now....based on the picture i attached
 

Attachments

  • ABD1031C-7D9C-4E31-9463-507E44034120.jpeg
    ABD1031C-7D9C-4E31-9463-507E44034120.jpeg
    101.4 KB · Views: 149
Last edited:
Below I documented the fix for the slipping 4th starter gear. I want to add the original poster/author is below. All I did was test and post pictures to what he is writing about. I applied this fix years ago to a kick starter spring the same way with success.

The reason why the starter slips and spins out because the spring has lost it's tension or was never set properly. This is what I found.

The spring has to be at 6 pounds. I found when it gets to 4 pounds it slips. I tested this on 3 other bikes. They were all at 4 pounds that slipped, new aftermarket-used aftermarket OEM or otherwise. Just takes 2 pounds difference.
xsscale.jpg


This is what happens to the gear when the spring is at 4 pounds pressure.
xsgear.jpg


This is a fish scale I bought at Walmart for $15.00. I'll keep it and use it to adjust the steering head.
xsscalle.jpg


Here is the factory spring tension rate
xsinfo.jpg


I have gotten two of Mikes stater kits for 2 of my bikes and one worked fine and the other just spun. This is what I've found on the adjustment. You can only squeeze the spring in a vise. No matter how hard you squeeze you only achieve 6 pounds. So if you don't have a scale you will be in spec. Just don't over squeeze on the vise and disform the spring.
xsvise.jpg


Here is what I've also found. On the left is Mikes spring. Notice the flat sides to fit the new gear. To the right is a OEM NOS spring, it's fatter-just not grinded flat. When I put a NOS spring on Mikes gear you only get 4 pounds. If you squeeze the spring you get 8 pounds so that is the best set up. *Note* if you put a OEM spring on a OEM gear you will only get 4 pounds, the spring has to be bent in a vise.
xsclips.jpg


You really can't bend it on the bike and not take it apart this this.
xspliers.jpg


OEM part #
xsclip.jpg


Below is a post from the author with his fix I just documented and tested. This will fix the dreaded starter problem. You could probably just remove the slipping gear and squeeze the spring and you would be fine.


#Electric starter problems on the XS650 are very common, and almost always due

to a non-functioning #4 gear, the one that slides down the bendix helix and

engages the ring gear on the flywheel. Symptoms are a starter that does not

engage, a starter that just grinds ineffectually, or a starter that kicks out if the

engine does not start immediately. The usual remedy is to replace the gear

complete with it’s spring clip, but there is an easy way to fix erratic and non

functioning starters without changing the #4 gear, even if the gear is showing

signs of severe wear.


When people remove the offending gear it is often badly worn, and they

assume that is the reason the starter does not work. But exactly the converse is

true.

IT IS NOT A CASE OF THE STARTER NOT ENGAGING BECAUSE OF A

WORN #4 GEAR. THE #4 GEAR ONLY WEARS BECAUSE THE STARTER IS

NOT ENGAGING.

One will find in removing non-functioning #4 gears from an XS650 that there is

still lots of tooth left. Now the bendix on a car will continue to engage till the

teeth are completely snapped off, and even then will turn the engine jerkily.

One usually changes them to avoid damage to the ring gear on the flywheel,

rather than because they won't engage. It’s not the worn teeth on the #4 gear

that prevents engagement. The reason the starter does not engage is because

of the spring clip on the #4 gear losing it's tension. The manual calls for about

5 lbs tension required to rotate the clip in it’s groove on the gear. The tension

found on the new ones can be up at about 8 lbs. You will invariably find that

the tension required to move the clip on non-functioning starter gears will be

down to about 2 lbs or less. This can be measured using a fishing scale.

What happens is this.

Because the # 4 gear is light and does not have enough

inertia (resistance to being rotated from a state of rest), Yamaha designed in the

spring clip to increase the inertia. This restrains the gear from turning on the

bendix when the bendix shaft is initially rotated by the starter motor. So, as the

bendix rotates, the helix on the bendix shaft forces the gear down the shaft and

into engagement, because the gear will slide before it will turn. Once it gets to

the end of the bendix, by which time it is fully engaged with the flywheel ring

gear, it has no option but to turn, it has nowhere further to slide. When the

spring tension in the clip is too weak, there is not enough restraint, so instead

of the gear resisting turning, it just spins with the bendix shaft, does not move

down the shaft fully, and is not forced into engagement. It goes down just far

enough to grind off it's teeth against the flywheel ring gear.

All that is necessary to get a starter gear working, no matter how worn the teeth,

is to bend the clip so it gets back to a minimum of 5 lbs required to move the

clip.

All that is needed to do is drain the oil, remove the kickstart lever, brake lever,

foot rest, and disconnect the tach drive cable at the side cover. Then remove the

right hand side cover. The best way is then to remove the clutch basket and

dismount the #4gear from the bike. I haven’t yet tried to do this fix with the

clutch still mounted on the bike and the #4 gear in place, but this may well be

possible. I am pretty sure that on the newer units where the loop of the spring

clip bears against the floor of engine case the that the loop will be visible just

under the forward lower edge of the clutch assembly, and you will be able to

reach in and do the following without further disassembly. On the older units

with the clip with the skinny loop inside the recess in the crankcase, the clutch

will definitely have to be removed and the gear dismounted. In any case, either

way, just use a heavy pliers, like a linesman's pliers, or a Visegrip, to squeeze t

he loop of the clip closed so it bends a little and the clip then grips the gear

tighter. If you do remove the gear from the bike, lever the clip off the gear

using a screwdriver, squeeze the loop of the clip in a vise, and remount it on

the gear. Check the tension with a fishing scale, if it is less that 5 lbs squeeze

the loop a little more.

You can test it immediately, even before remounting the clutch. Pull the spark

leads so the oil-empty engine does not start, and hit the starter button. I bet your

starter will now work, no matter what the wear is on the #4 gear's teeth.

Farrell
You mentioned putting a NOS spring on Mike’s gear and then an OEM spring on gear and that no matter which setup, you still have to squeeze in a vice. What about Mikes setup, with the updated spring and starter gear sold as a combo?? Does this STILL need to be put in a vice?
 
Test it with the fishing scale. That will tell you if it needs to be pinched tighter or not. But usually yes, even a brand new clip needs to be squeezed tighter.
 
Curious, why even go with an updated clip then?? Why not just squeeze the factory one?? Thoughts?
I found a NOS gear and clip but I still had to squeeze the clip to get the right tension on it
It's not perfect but I don't think you can make that starter to not have a bit of noise to it
My still makes some noise but at least it will start the bike
I had a 74 same thing but back then I didn't have any idea how to fix it
 
I found a NOS gear and clip but I still had to squeeze the clip to get the right tension on it
It's not perfect but I don't think you can make that starter to not have a bit of noise to it
My still makes some noise but at least it will start the bike
I had a 74 same thing but back then I didn't have any idea how to fix it
Right but what im saying is this new UPDATED clip that mikes sells, whats so updated about it if you STILL have to put it in a vice? Thats where im confused. You may as well just squeeze your factory clip.....youd think if it was updated it would eliminate you having to put it in a vice right?
 
Right but what im saying is this new UPDATED clip that mikes sells, whats so updated about it if you STILL have to put it in a vice? Thats where im confused. You may as well just squeeze your factory clip.....youd think if it was updated it would eliminate you having to put it in a vice right?
I've never had a Mike's gear and clip but from what I've read on the forum you have to squeeze them too
Curious, why even go with an updated clip then?? Why not just squeeze the factory one?? Thoughts?
 
I've never had a Mike's gear and clip but from what I've read on the forum you have to squeeze them too
They just come week from the factory if your old gears is good just squeeze it should be good just try it out before you button it up
 
Ok great! Also looking at the picture i attached, where should the loop go? Where the arrow is pointing to, or where it is at now?
Some say it dont matter as long as loop is squeezed tight enough.
 

Attachments

  • FFB70CDA-ABC1-41A0-B5F1-0622EDB5B4FE.jpeg
    FFB70CDA-ABC1-41A0-B5F1-0622EDB5B4FE.jpeg
    101.4 KB · Views: 154
Ok great! Also looking at the picture i attached, where should the loop go? Where the arrow is pointing to, or where it is at now?
Some say it dont matter as long as loop is squeezed tight enough.
Yamaha released a service bulletin right around when the 75s came out and it showed that with the newer thicker clip it should be placed on the outside (to thick to get it in there)
If it won't fit in the slot just leave in the outside position it will be fine mines on the outside and I have a 75
 
This is the bulletin you’re referring to right? So yours is in this NEW position?
 

Attachments

  • F57D6350-578D-4644-B411-BFE1B391CFF5.jpeg
    F57D6350-578D-4644-B411-BFE1B391CFF5.jpeg
    80.2 KB · Views: 145
Here's the tech update on the starter gear and clip. The new heavier clip came out in '76 and was installed on all models after that .....

RriZnP9.jpg


If you have the old skinny wire clip, you could squeeze it tighter but it's not going to stay that way as long as a new heavier clip will. Bottom line - get the new heavy clip and matching gear if you have the old skinny clip. You place the new clip's loop outside the old clip's notch simply because it won't fit in there any more. It's a heavier and physically larger part.

Dude, you're making this simple update seem so difficult. So, to confuse you even more, here's a better way to squeeze the clip, lol .....

http://www.xs650.com/threads/alternative-slipping-starter-gear-spring-fix.59210/#post-683434
 
Back
Top