Starter-safety / lighting relay

[79josh81]

Hey guys, quick question about the starter-safety/lighting relay (dual relay) on my 1979 xs650. I tried searching for some answers but I'm looking for more of just a general concensus.

So I have the model with the starter-safety/lighting relay. So if I understand the purpose of this relay correctly:

For the starter - it's suppose to make it so that if the bike is running and you push the start button, the starter won't engage.
For the lighting - the relay cuts power to the head lamp, gauge lights, and high beam indicator light UNTIL the engine is started and running.

The reason I ask is because when I start my bike, the starter works just fine. But if I hit the start button when the bike is running, the starter DOES engage. Also, my gauge lights, head lamp, and high beam indicator light have been out since I bought the bike. Last night I jumpered the relay switch connector and the head lamp, gauge light, and high beam indicator all worked and turned back on.

Is this a pretty good indicator that the starter relay and lighting relay are both not working? I know there's a way to test the wiring to the the relay switch but I'm just trying to get a concensus on whether the symptoms I described are what you would see if the entire relay wasn't working correctly. Just curious if anyone else has ever had one of these go out their bike.

Also, I can jumper the wires to make the lights work like I said above but then I have no starter. If I remove the jumper and plug the connector back in, I'm back to having a working starter but then no lights again. Is there anyway to just bypass the entire relay (starter and lighting) at the same time so I can use the starter and still have lights? If not, is my only option to find a used stock replacement? Or is there some updated way with a newer relay system I can replace it with?

 

[5twins]

There probably are aftermarket replacement relays you could use but I've never seen a write-up on doing so. Easiest solution would probably be a nice used replacement. I seem to recall someone having issues with theirs, Maxpete maybe, and fixing it by simply popping the covers off and cleaning the relays.

It seems like both relays are not being "tripped" or energized. They are remaining in their "off" positions. Keep in mind that these relays are triggered when they get fed voltage on the yellow wire from the alternator. If you're not charging, this may not happen. To test them, you could probably feed 12 volts into the yellow wire and see if that trips them.

The headlight relay makes and breaks the connection between the R/Y wire from the "lights" fuse and the L/B wire running up to the lights (through the RLU). To make the lights work without the relay, jumper those two wires together. The lights will come on with the key then, or at least they should.

 

[79josh81]

There probably are aftermarket replacement relays you could use but I've never seen a write-up on doing so. Easiest solution would probably be a nice used replacement. I seem to recall someone having issues with theirs, Maxpete maybe, and fixing it by simply popping the covers off and cleaning the relays.

It seems like both relays are not being "tripped" or energized. They are remaining in their "off" positions. Keep in mind that these relays are triggered when they get fed voltage on the yellow wire from the alternator. If you're not charging, this may not happen. To test them, you could probably feed 12 volts into the yellow wire and see if that trips them.

The headlight relay makes and breaks the connection between the R/Y wire from the "lights" fuse and the L/B wire running up to the lights (through the RLU). To make the lights work without the relay, jumper those two wires together. The lights will come on with the key then, or at least they should.

Yeah, that’s how I jumpered the lights to come on. I’d also just hate to buy a used relay and find out that relay is broke too. My system is charging now so I don’t think it’s an issue with the the relay not get power.

 

[5twins]

You might try contacting gggGary, I'm sure he could set you up. I'm pretty sure he has a '79 model and could test the used relay on it to insure it was a good and functioning one. It would also be nice to get one that matches up to your plugs. These relays didn't change much as far as their function goes, but the connector plug configuration did. The one on my '78 Standard has a square plug and a couple separate single wires with bullet connectors on them. The one on my '83 just has one larger rectangular plug.

 

[mrtwowheel]

After using the Honda system for many years, I have come to appreciate this system on the XS very much. The Honda system is, turn the key and the headlight comes on, push the start button and the headlight goes out while the starter is turning, release the start button and the head light comes back on. So, on these Honda's, you'd better be ready to start that engine as soon as you turn that key or you're SOL. Can't get this through my son's head, who thinks that he has all day to start that engine, and if the battery dies, he thinks it must be the bike's fault.

Scott

 

[79josh81]

Hey another off question..do you guys know if there are any diagrams of wiring for when guys chop their bike and completely get rid of the majority of the stock wiring? The reason I ask is that my eventual plan is to chop the bike and i'd like to get rid of as much wiring as possible and replace it with new stuff.

`And as far as this relay issue goes, it would be nice to just have an on/off switch for the headlamp instead of Yamaha complicating things with a dual relay where one relay depends on the other.

 

[79josh81]

Also, will these Standard voltage regulators...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Standard-V...m3b194855a6:m:mH6dxOLMVnFed0FbIHS9CmA&vxp=mtr

work to replace my stock regulator?

 

[650Skull]

Post #33.............Clarified the post..........
http://www.xs650.com/threads/how-do-i-test-my-stock-alternator.53079/page-2

 

[79josh81]

Yeah i know. The Standard vr 115 regulator wasn't on the list that was put up in that post so thats why I was asking. It does seem like it is interchangeable with some that are on that list though.

Hey skull, you know what kind of voltage I should get from the yellow wire coming from the alternator going to the safety/lighting relay with the bike running? Everything I've found says like 6 volts (DC?) but I'm getting 0 volts (which might be cause of my relay issue also). I've checked the wire all the way to the engine case but haven't removed the case yet to check the wire's condition. Any reason I wouldn't be getting voltage on that yellow wire besides loose/damaged wires? My battery is being charged by the alternator FYI.

 

[650Skull]

Don't know what the reading should be.

If your not getting any power out on the Yellow wire then the Alternator isn't working or the wire is broken. If your getting Voltage to the battery then the yellow should have power, i would suspect the yellow is broken........My guess would be the same as yours......The yellow only wakes up the Starter relay when the engine fires and the alternator generates power, sending the power to the relay so the light can start and shuts off the power to the stater motor.

 

[highboy_coupe]

I made my own basic version of this just to control the light and have it work in the same way as standard (light comes on with ignition and stays on after stall, then goes of with key). I don't see why you couldn't extend that principle to the starter relay, you just need another realy that is normally closed -- the light relay is normally open.

 

[highboy_coupe]

Here is a drawing of what I did, excuse the shittyness:

On the right is the plug that goes to the starter solenoid and relays

• The headlamp relay is a 6V SPST normally open automotive type, I don't think the alternator can trip a 12v although I didn't try
• The yellow is from the alternator, it a bit ropey as far as current goes, definately not 12V
  
• The red and yellow whire is from the battery
• The blue and black wire goes to the headlamp
• The black is ground

The left over red and white wires are for the starter, one comes from the battery and one would go to the solenoid. You would add a 6V normally closed, take the yellow wire and use that to connect the two red and white wires.