Stella - 1977D survivor, back on the road.

Your cables should be fine. At least they're oiled now. If they're off the bike and hanging, you could flip them end for end, add more oil, and sort of flush them through, back and forth from one end then the other. Those little clamp-on cable oilers that take the spray lube are good for flushing, not really good for lubing. That spray lube is too thin and doesn't last very long.

Eventually, you should get some spare or replacement cables. The MikesXS throttle cables are fine but don't get their clutch cable. The inner wire is very thin compared to an original and they have been reported to break in as little as 400 miles. They're junk. Many of us use the aftermarket Motion Pro clutch cable. It's a nice heavy cable just like the original. I recently ran across this deal on Amazon and got myself another spare .....

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007S2VHCI/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

You won't find a good clutch cable any cheaper than this.
 
$10! Done

Ok, how do I torque down the rear axle nut? Even not to 'spec', just 'tight'.

If on the bike, must I remove the exhaust? Not much room between it and the axle.

If off the bike, torquing tightens the slots for the swing arm too much.

To pull the wheel off, I loosened the axle just enough to slide the whole wheel backwards off the swing arm, then pulled the axle out of the wheel off the bike.
 
If you can't get to the axle nut with a socket and 1/2" torque wrench then something will have to come off first! I've seen lots of them that looked like that...
P.S. if that was the case the easiest thing might be to undo the shocks at the top mount and let the swing arm fall enough to get clearance.

You mentioned the swing arm. One thing you and Yamaha77 should both do if it hasn't been done is replace the swing arm bolt. It necks down at the threads and one experienced mechanic I talked to said he had never seen one of those bolts that wasn't cracked at the neck. Mine wasn't but I figured it would end up that way so I replaced it with one Mike's sells which is the full diameter the whole length. While doing that, replace the plastic bushings with bronze or brass ones. Lots of material on here about how to do that.
 
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Thanks, xj.

I really didn't want to have to pull the exhaust, but oh well. One more small process I'll have succeeded in.

Thanks for the heads up on those bolts, already done. So are the bushings. Swing arm has zero play.
 
See my P.S. and contemplate that instead. Much less drastic that removing the exhaust.
 
Thanks!!!

But there we go with mission creep. If I undo those shocks, I'm going to hate putting them back in when I know I want to replace them soon.

The struggles we must endure...
 
I'm a firm believer in using a torque wrench as much as possible on bikes/cars/trucks etc. However, the rear axle on these bikes is an exception. There just is no reason to use a torque wrench for that nut. Just use any wrench that is long enough to allow you to put some good torque on the nut. It is tightened as much as you can, and when it stops moving, back it off to the first hole that alines so that you can install a cotter pin. 108 ft/lbs is the listed torque, buy I have never used a torque wrench to measure that. I sometimes use an adjustable wrench that is about 12 inches long, which gives me good mechanical advantage and that is all that is needed. With the cotter pin in there, they are never going to back off.

No exhaust removal or shock removal is required.
 
A 16 inch long drift swedged to a 1/4 inch on the small end.
You probably have the "blocked" loop swingarm and it is about the easiest way to remove the rear wheel assembly in my opinion especially if dealing with bag racks . XJWMX probably has the closed loop swingarm, the reason for his alternative suggestions.
 
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Just a note - you'll need to oil your new clutch cable before using it. They come pretty much dry. Yes, $10.99 is a heck of a deal for a Motion Pro clutch cable. They're usually around $20 (or more).

To hold the axles from spinning while tightening the nut, I stick a #2 Philips screwdriver through the hole. It's always been enough to hold it for me. Yamaha screwed up on the axle nut torque values in my opinion. For the 650 they gave them as a single number value. There's probably better than a 99% chance that if you do use that single number value, the cotter pin hole won't be aligned when you reach it. The spec should have been given as a range. At least that way, you have a chance of aligning the cotter pin hole and still being somewhere in the spec range. Other Yamaha models did so, in particular the XS500. If you must use a torque wrench, I would follow those values. The XS500 wheels are very similar to the 650's and use the same axle diameters so the values should apply .....

 
The usual instruction for that kind of thing is tighten to the spec torque and if you can't get a pin through continue tightening (not back off) until you can. In effect that is a range. I take it to 100 and then continue if needed until the pin will go through. This is my choice, not a recommendation. I like to see figures saying my wheels on on tight. "Tight" is horribly vague to the uninitiated.
 
xjwmx.......................you are certainly correct in what you say. In a perfect world we know that every bolt and nut on any mechanical device should be torqued to its design spec. But we also know that sometimes that does not happen, except for the space shuttle, most aircraft and nuclear power plants.
Since I don't use a torque wrench on that nut, I'm guessing that maybe its only at 70 to 80 ft/lbs when I think its "tight". The cotter pin goes in with a loose fit, and everytime I remove the cotter pin to do a chain adjustment or remove the rear wheel, the cotter pin is still a loose fit. That tells me that the castlelated nut has not moved, otherwise the nut would be jammed against the cotter pin.

If inexperienced riders doubt their ability to know what "tight" feels like, then they should always use a torque wrench.
 
^Those space shuttle guys wouldn't need a torque wrench if they were as confident as you.
 
Hi DB:

+1 - :agree: I certainly agree with using a torque wrench whenever possible. That is why the Yamaha engineers did the torque calculations in the first place - so that people could know how to do things properly. I also concur that the torque value in the manual should be given as a range, not a single value. Your thought to start at 100 ft-lbs seems to me to be reasonable. As for holding the axle from turning - I have always found that the little screwdriver in the toolkit was adequate. If it won't hold the axle from turning - you may be trying too hard on the axle nut.

The wrinkle is that relatively ( ;) ) few people actually carry a torque wrench on the road and yet THAT is where folks often need to remove a wheel to fix a flat etc. (don't ask me how I know that....).

So....what to do without a torque wrench? Well, I would point out that the rear axle alignment and attachment arrangements (and both alignment and attachment are vital here) on the XS650 - and all reasonably modern bikes in fact - have a fair bit of redundancy built-in for safety. As for getting the feel of when tight is "tight enough"...you could practice with a torque wrench. As was pointed out above, experienced people sort of "know" how to do this "tight enough" thing and so it can be learned with some practice.

OK, lets get back to the bike itself, in order of how you should do the task of aligning and attaching the rear wheel, here are the various systems on the bike:
  1. the chrome chain tensioner brackets and bolts (with attached locknuts) on each end of the swing-arm align and secure the rear wheel - be sure to look carefully from side to side and line-up the marks on the swing arm so that the rear wheel tracks properly behind the front wheel (and the bike doesn't go down the road cocked sideways like an old dog or a poorly maintained dump truck) and also be sure that the chain has the correct amount of slack.
  2. the pinch bolt on each end of the swing-arm must be loosened when you are moving the axle around and then re-tightened when you are done and getting ready to ride; (NOTE - the stock pinch bolts seem to be rather low grade items so I upgraded to a pair of stronger socket head cap screws (Allen bolts);
  3. the rear axle nut and threads are large and strong and so if you reaf it up "good-n-tight" with the toolkit wrench (the flat stamped steel thing with the hex hole in one end and the kinked body) and extension tubey-bar thingy - it should be fine (NOTE: you will likely be sitting on your bum on the ground behind the bike at this point and so you could pulled really hard - but don't go crazy on it. However, do give it a good snug-up. Also, this is great time to give the chain a good look-over to ensure that the master link is secure and that none of the other links are rusted or busted.);
  4. the rear axle cotter pin arrangement is clever because the axle normally has at least two holes drilled through it - and they are offset from the normal 60 deg. hex pattern, so that it is likely that at least one of the holes will line up with one of the castellations (ridges) on the axle nut and you won't have to try too hard to get a pin through the hole. (NOTE: NEVER ride without a cotter pin through the axle - they are very cheap and widely available and should be replaced each time you have the wheel off - or at least every second time. Buy a package of new ones (about $1.00 or so) and stash them in the toolkit bag or inside one of the side covers with some duct tape. Finally, be sure to bend both legs of the cotter pin over to ensure that it stays where it should);
As an old mechanical-automotive engineer, I and the other folks on this forum can assure you that if you do all of that, your rear wheel will remain attached to the bike and all should be well.

Cheers,

Pete
 
A very good posting Pete. I frequently take long trips on my bike, and of course I don't carry a torque wrench. Sometimes its necessary to adjust the chain while on a trip, and knowing the correct torque "feel" is a good thing.
 
MaxPete said:
As an old mechanical-automotive engineer,
Click to expand...
No engineering required yet. I actually do take my torque wrench on (long) trips. I use it mainly for the leverage -- including it makes a great billy club :)
 
Wow - that's a well equipped tripper! I'm doing well if I can remember to take my wallet along!

P
 
Thank you to all of you.

It is clear there are as many ways of doing things as there are engineers, professional mechanics, and garage wrenchers. Conversations of best practice are some my favorites to have, but seldom are they settled for good.

This particular nut and whether to torque to spec or 'tight' has been a topic amongst yourselves since at least 2009. A thread of that year on 650rider proves the longevity of this discussion.

Personally, while new to wrenching motorcycles, I've tightened I don't know how many fasteners in my lifetime. Some in life/death situations as well. There is most definitely a place for a torque wrench, but it is also true one may develop a feel for tightness.

In my field we hear phrases such as 'snug it up', 'make it tight, but don't monkey it', and 'tighten the **** out of it'. None of these are particularly accurate, but highly serviceable when used by persons who understand each other's language and the materials at hand.

108lbs sounds to me very much like 'tighten the **** out of it.'

The rear wheel, chain, sprockets, brake are all reassembled and ready to ride. Except the front sprocket's final tightening. The bargain basement socket extension I was using failed while using the torque wrench. Off to get a new one...
 
The rear end is reassembled with new tire, shoes, chain and sprockets. LH side cover reinstalled. Clutch cable oiled, installed, and adjusted. New manifolds with fresh gaskets installed. Electricals cleaned and greased. Many fasteners replaced with stainless hex heads.

Clean carbs are sitting on the bench fully assembled minus the float bowl (needle jet o-rings). Fresh fuel lines with filters installed.

Everything is down to those damn o-rings, scheduled for pick up at Grainger on Thursday.

Oh, yes. Video to come.
 

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