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Stella's Overly Complicated Wiring V2

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by DanielBlack, Dec 15, 2018.

  1. DanielBlack

    DanielBlack XS650 Junkie

    Uh, yeah...
    TwoManyXS1Bs, Jim, Mailman and 2 others like this.
  2. DanielBlack

    DanielBlack XS650 Junkie

    Well, damn.

    Poured some oil in and gave her a start. I had wired the white "HEAD" dash indicator to the SSR as a charging dummy light. Clear as can be, she's saying "I ain't charging, dummy."

    Troubleshooting is real tough when my not-so-helpful helper keeps getting his peanut butter fingers where they shouldn't be. "Put that down! Get out of there! Don't climb that! Hey, get back here!" Yes, Pete, he's moving and grooving just fine.

    But I did get out to the garage last night once he was asleep.

    Slap test failed.
    Battery with key on: 12.38v
    No voltage at L brush.
    0 ohm between R brush and battery negative
    5.6 ohm rotor, VOM leads accounted for.
    12.38v on the regulator's (VR291) sense and feed.
    0v on the regulator's output.

    It's looking like the regulator is fried, but I'm not sure how. It was charging during my quick test before the move. Somewhere about 13v at idle, pegged at 14.2v any where north of ~2000 RPM. Grumble, grumble. I'll find it...

    Double damn. Lost the acorn nut off the top of a shock along with the bushing underneath. Grumble, grumble. Hope I find them...
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2019
  3. MaxPete

    MaxPete Lucille, Betty, Demi & Gretel: I ask, THEY decide. XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Hmmmmm....well, given that it was OK before and now it isn't, I think I'd be looking for a loose / broken connection before I would start replacing things Daniel. Maybe it got jostled in the big move to the Green Zone...?
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2019
    DanielBlack likes this.
  4. DanielBlack

    DanielBlack XS650 Junkie

    That was my first hunch too, Pete. I had first probed the harness size of the connector pair, but I double checked on the regulator's side and no voltage there either.

    I've got a new regulator due to come in tomorrow. It'll be an easy task to put terminals on it, plug it in, and see if it works.

    The tough part will be to install it if it does. Access to the fasteners is under the battery just like the stock rectifier.

    And you might have thought the headlamp bucket was tight...

  5. MaxPete

    MaxPete Lucille, Betty, Demi & Gretel: I ask, THEY decide. XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    YIKES - that IS crowded.

    I sure hope that you get in there after naptime begins....not too much room for a little helper to, you know, help.
    Mailman, DanielBlack and Jim like this.
  6. DanielBlack

    DanielBlack XS650 Junkie

    Unbelievably, I found both the acorn nut and the bushing. They each caught a ride in separate boxes!

    Way back when I installed the aftermarket shocks, I had noticed one of the top mount studs was stripped and the nut had bite on only a few threads. I had planned on trying to tap it with slightly smaller threads, but it seems like I might have misplaced that particular to-do list. Whoops.

    I won't need the nut, but I'm sure glad I found that bushing.
    Jim, Mailman and gggGary like this.
  7. DanielBlack

    DanielBlack XS650 Junkie

    Wired in the new VR last night.

    Key on:
    A loosely held wrench near the alternator indicates a strong magnet.
    Battery @ 11.99v.
    Voltage at L brush @ 10.82v.

    Now to install it...
  8. DanielBlack

    DanielBlack XS650 Junkie

    Work on Stella is on a short hiatus, but I'm putting skills learned with her to good use.

    Brother-in-law gifted me a rider mower that ran when parked two seasons ago. It's had an oil leak since he got it 2nd hand from his neighbor and just keeps it topped up during the season. Can't do a full oil change anyway because the oil drain plug is stuck. Didn't leak fuel when last ran, but it does now. Can't get it to start because the battery is probably dead. But it's mine if I want it. On to the trailer it went, back to my garage.

    Put it on the charger
    Removed rodent nest
    Cleaned air filter
    Replaced oil drain pipe, elbow, plug
    Hylomar'd the oil fill tube into its seat
    New oil
    Replaced spark plug
    Replumbed fuel line
    Refilled gas with a good shot (or 3) of Seafoam

    Turned key, started right up. Up and down the block at full throttle, running fine. Died as I cut throttle pulling into the driveway. Restarted, slowly lowered throttle bit by bit. Each time it smoothed out, I lowered it a bit more. After about five minutes it's smooth through the full throttle range.

    $40 in supplies. I'll reserve judgment on the leaks until I give it a good wash, but I'm pretty sure the fuel leak is gone.


    Last edited: Oct 15, 2019
    MaxPete, Mailman, Jim and 1 other person like this.
  9. Mailman

    Mailman Hardly a Guru Top Contributor

    How much are you paying your “ assistant “ ? :laugh2:
    Paul Sutton, MaxPete, gggGary and 2 others like this.
  10. GLJ

    GLJ Never go faster than your guardian angle can fly. Top Contributor

    I'm betting he's getting room, board, medical, education along with hugs, kisses and love.:thumbsup:
  11. MaxPete

    MaxPete Lucille, Betty, Demi & Gretel: I ask, THEY decide. XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    ....and a bottle of the finest House White.....;)

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA - now, I ask you - WHERE have we heard that before?
    Paul Sutton, Jim and Mailman like this.
  12. DanielBlack

    DanielBlack XS650 Junkie

    I've owed y'all an update.

    Got the regulator swapped out two weekends ago. Looks like some water might have pooled and seeped into the innards. The young one is happy to show you where.


    It was a bit chilly that morning, but I'll blame the hard start on her sitting in the garage all year. She was rather reliant on the choke for a while, but that seemed to clear up after a few runs up and down the block. Also, charging looked great. Idled somewhere about 13v, pegged at 14.2 at 2k+.

    After a quick stop for a full tank of fresh gas, I headed over to the nearest inspection station. As I pulled in to the front lot, shut down, and got off the bike, a gent came out and said he'd bring it into the shop around the back. I began to tell him about the headlight being controlled by the neutral switch, but he gunned the throttle and headed around the building in 2nd, somewhere near redline.

    I walked into the shop through the front door and saw him walk through the back door with a not-so-nice look on his face.


    "Did you open the petcock?"

    He just stared at me for a moment, turned, walked away. A short time later he coasted into the shop with Stella gently purring.

    Inspection passed, title changed to MO, registered, plate sitting on the bench waiting for a rubber mount.

    The funny thing is the shop was only 5mi from my house, but the odo showed a 25mi round trip. Huh. Blue skies, yellow trees, and mild temps do weird things.
  13. Mailman

    Mailman Hardly a Guru Top Contributor

    You gotta love a jerk like that. Not biased much huh? Where in Missouri are now?
    They make you do inspections still huh, I’m SO happy Arizona dropped that.
    gggGary, MaxPete and Jim like this.
  14. DanielBlack

    DanielBlack XS650 Junkie

    Yeah, but I do like shutting them down with a gentle reply.

    I'm just south of St. Louis. I only needed a safety check. Up until a few years ago, I would've needed an emissions, too.
  15. MaxPete

    MaxPete Lucille, Betty, Demi & Gretel: I ask, THEY decide. XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Well done Daniel - you’re back on the road!

    How are madam and your little helper settling into the new locale on the “green side of the map”?

    Paul Sutton, gggGary and Jim like this.
  16. TwoManyXS1Bs

    TwoManyXS1Bs BBQ Hunter Top Contributor

    Haha, mine's kick-start only. Inspectors won't touch it. They just write up an okey-dokey.

    I'm revisiting your neutral/headlight lockout circuit. Ideas cooking.
    Just ordered a $1.53 pack of 5 mini 12v relays (30 cents each!)
    20 amp rated contacts, about 9/16" cube size.


    Should be here somewhere around January...

    Attached Files:

    MaxPete, Paul Sutton, Mailman and 3 others like this.
  17. DanielBlack

    DanielBlack XS650 Junkie

    Yeah, Pete. Back on the road for 25mi before the salt went down. At least I'm ready for spring, eh?

    We're settling in just fine, thank you. We're both quite happy to have made the move. Little guy and the 16yo pup seem to like the grassy yard much better than the xeriscaping we had in the land of brown.

    2M, SUBminiature?! I gotta say, I was excited about the little circuit you designed for me, but without small electronic experience and my skilled buddy busy with his own kids and garage-bound vintage bike, I regret to say that I didn't get it incorporated.

    One of these days, I'm going to post up a tour of the wiring overhaul for y'all to see, but you've already seen under the seat. I really like the functionality of it all (and it does seem to be functioning really well), but I know a neater job could have been done. Those itty bitty subminiature relays would really help. Am I right that they live on PCB boards? The big ol' minis I used just barely fit. Tiny components on custom built PCB boards would sure be slick.

    For a guy with my skillset, the Motogadget grew much more attractive as I packed more and more stuff into tight places. If it was a simple schematic of power/control/device, of course the Motogadget would be overkill, but with the trickery I was after and with what I paid for wire, connectors, terminals, etc, etc...
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2019
  18. TwoManyXS1Bs

    TwoManyXS1Bs BBQ Hunter Top Contributor

    Yes, PCB mount suitable. But I'll have to see if the pins will fit on 0.100" perfboards, or something metric.

    What caught my attention on those was the relatively high contact rating of 10-20 amp, the high coil resistance, and the small size. Usually, subminiature relays are only in the fractional amp to 2, maybe 5 amp ratings. Never heard of "Songle" relays before, normally preferred "Omron"...
    gggGary, Jim, Team Junk and 1 other person like this.
  19. TwoManyXS1Bs

    TwoManyXS1Bs BBQ Hunter Top Contributor

    The Songle relays arrived.
    A pic of the large automotive relay, Songle relays, and some smaller PC board relays.

    Quite a bit smaller, huh?
    Top of the pic is a Songle relay fitted onto a standard 0.100" perfboard...
  20. TwoManyXS1Bs

    TwoManyXS1Bs BBQ Hunter Top Contributor

    And, some trivia data for your files...

    Team Junk, GLJ, Rasputin and 2 others like this.

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