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TCI Replacement 2020 It Works

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by Team Junk, May 15, 2020.

  1. Jim

    Jim Beyond the edge is the unknown. Here be Dragons XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    With it not advancing to 35° you're gonna be slightly down on power and your mileage will be down. But.... it's not gonna hurt anything to run it like that.
    I would definitely not do any re-jetting until you get that 35° advance.
     
    TwoManyXS1Bs, Paul Sutton and gggGary like this.
  2. gggGary

    gggGary I'm listening, change my mind XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    You can bias towards the advance position and be a little advanced at idle, long as you don't get to "kick back" idle timing it'll be fine.
     
    Paul Sutton and Jim like this.
  3. Jim

    Jim Beyond the edge is the unknown. Here be Dragons XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Exactly. How far you can advance the idle is still an unknown. I have bum knees and can't use the kicker. We could use a little feedback here on how the kicker behaves when you get the full 35° advance. I've filed the trigger to where I'm getting 34° advance and the elec starter handles that just fine. We need feedback on how the kicker handles it.... anybody?
     
  4. gggGary

    gggGary I'm listening, change my mind XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    I've found the e-start to be a bit more timing sensitive. I actually think it doesn't have the torque and speed "over the top" a good boot kick does.
     
    Paul Sutton, YamadudeXS650C and Jim like this.
  5. Jim

    Jim Beyond the edge is the unknown. Here be Dragons XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    If that's the case, we're good.
     
    Paul Sutton and gggGary like this.
  6. itschrisb

    itschrisb XS650 Addict

    Hey so I was having the exact same issue and I switched the pick up (+) wire and pick up (-) wire around and now my bike runs fine. Worth a shot!

    Update on my bike from today. I put about 20 miles on my Gonzo box and the bike seems to be doing great. I have some break up issues but I believe it’s the crappy K&N pod filters that are on there. I’m waiting on a set of UNI pods to come in to see if that helps and if not I’ll be sourcing a set of stock air boxes.
     
    gggGary, 313-Matt and Jim like this.
  7. 313-Matt

    313-Matt XS650 Member

    So I got the airboxes on and was able to take a short ride today. It runs, but not quite right. Bad bogging between 3-5k rpm under load and throttle. Once it gets to 5k it opens up. My son asked: "How much of the time are you between 3 and 5k when riding?" Almost all the time, buddy. :-/

    The module I ended up with has neither side of the crank pickup grounded inside the module. I'll get on switching the crank pickup leads. More to come.

    Matt
     
    gggGary, Jim and itschrisb like this.
  8. 313-Matt

    313-Matt XS650 Member

    Well, I got the wires switched, and it seems different. One thing is now I have a kick-back problem. Almost to the point I am concerned about kicking it. The other is that it is really advanced. Here is idle: (looks right to me)
    upload_2020-9-12_16-59-29.png
    Here is 4 or 5k:
    upload_2020-9-12_17-0-31.png

    What am I doing wrong?

    Matt

    PS - My son says the pictures are worthy of an art gallery. ;-)
     
    Paul Sutton likes this.
  9. Jim

    Jim Beyond the edge is the unknown. Here be Dragons XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    The left side of the drain slot is the 40° mark. Try retarding the pickup 3-4°. Rotate it to the left... ccw.
    40° is acceptable (that's the original spec) but if it's kicking back, try to retard it. Might mean filing the slot in the pickup.

    Untitled.png
     
  10. 313-Matt

    313-Matt XS650 Member

    itschrisb and Jim like this.
  11. 5twins

    5twins XS650 Guru Top Contributor

    20,176
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    Yes, that 10/35 spec for the GN250 is showing that the ignition is giving 25° of advance between idle and full advance (35 - 10 = 25). The stock 650 gives the same amount but it's idle/advance settings are 15/40. Where the firing happens depends on where the pick-up is located. Obviously the 650 pick-up is mounted in a slightly different spot than the GN250 one.

    So, your pics seem to indicate the GN250 box is acting as designed, giving 25° of advance between idle and full advance. But many of us feel that the full advance setting of 40° is a bit much. It can cause pinging. So, we like to retard it a few degrees, set the idle timing at 12° or 13° to give a full advance of 37° or 38°. That's easily accomplished by slotting the top mounting hole on the pick-up a little bit. You only need do the top hole. The pick-up will just rotate on the bottom screw to the new position. It doesn't take much. You only need to slot the upper hole about half a hole wider. That's enough to change the timing that 2 or 3 degrees required .....

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    sleddog83, nj1639, gggGary and 3 others like this.
  12. 313-Matt

    313-Matt XS650 Member

    Yeah, Michael Morse (UMMM) recommends that as well. It was 'on the list' of things to do when the (stock) module had problems.

    Matt
     
    gggGary likes this.
  13. 313-Matt

    313-Matt XS650 Member

    So I decided to run the module tests I found in a GN250 manual on the module today. (Page below. Yeah, it's hard to read.) Every resistance (except open circuit) test came up bad. One interesting thing did happen. When I applied power to (2) and ground to (6,) 4 went to ground. Not sure what that means, but it's a data point. Perhaps I should re-do the resistance test with power to the module?

    Any thoughts? (Other than get another module...)

    A side thought is about the resistance test on the GN250 is 160-240 Ohms. XS pickups are 700 +/- 10%. Perhaps we need a resister in parallel?

    Matt
    2020-09-14_GN250_ignition_testing.JPG
     
    jetmechmarty likes this.
  14. Bjorn

    Bjorn XS650 Addict

    I just red through this topic, Amazing work guys! I cannot believe how much effort went into this subject.
    I'm gonna jump aboard and order a ignition as a back-up.
     
    gggGary and YamadudeXS650C like this.
  15. itschrisb

    itschrisb XS650 Addict

    My buddy just picked up an ‘81 Xs650. His is stock tci and my ‘83 is running the GN250 box, I’d argue mine running better. Seems to have a little more power. Either way my Gonzo box is still performing flawlessly!
     
  16. YamadudeXS650C

    YamadudeXS650C Central New York XS650 XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    That was exactly my experience when I ran the '82 with the Gonzo.
     
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  17. 5twins

    5twins XS650 Guru Top Contributor

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    That may be due to the slightly less full advance setting. The early bikes had a few more horsepower and one of the differences between them and the later models was that their full advance setting was a few degrees less. I think my bikes run better with the timing retarded like this. They seem to run stronger in the high RPMs and at high speeds.
     
    gggGary and TwoManyXS1Bs like this.
  18. Kojack

    Kojack XS650 Member

    I'm new here and just joined up because of this info. This is all fascinating. I want to try this on an sr500. They already use a magnet in the rotor and a trigger coil, along with a very rare and expensive cdi unit. I'm curious though, did you try one of the gy6 cdi boxes? I understand they give around 20 degrees advance.
     
  19. Jim

    Jim Beyond the edge is the unknown. Here be Dragons XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Just speaking for myself.... no, I haven't.
    Far as I know, all experiments are documented in this thread.
     
    jetmechmarty and Kojack like this.
  20. Kojack

    Kojack XS650 Member

    Pickups produce voltage.I would think a 700 ohm coil would put out a fairly high voltage compared to something in the 200 ohm range. Maybe it cooked it?
     

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