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TCI Replacement 2020 It Works

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by Team Junk, May 15, 2020.

  1. Jim

    Jim Beyond the edge is the unknown. Here be Dragons XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Bet I know what... ;)
    Beags64 likes this.
  2. Beags64

    Beags64 XS650 Junkie Top Contributor

    Shhh....it's a secret....lol
    Jim likes this.
  3. Jim

    Jim Beyond the edge is the unknown. Here be Dragons XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    I remember sumpin' you bought a while back.... mums the word. :smoke:
    gggGary and Beags64 like this.
  4. GLJ

    GLJ Never go faster than your guardian angle can fly. Top Contributor

    No fair keeping secrets.
    gggGary and Jim like this.
  5. Kojack

    Kojack XS650 Member

    Well, i finished my testing on the gy6 ignition today and unfortunately the results were poor. This CDI just doesn't advance. The system could be useable if I wanted to switch between no advance and full advance, like the old Harleys and Indians, but I'm looking for something better. I have the Suzuki TCI that I'll try next but that won't happen before January. For now, here's the fail video.

    Paul Sutton, gggGary and Jim like this.
  6. Jim

    Jim Beyond the edge is the unknown. Here be Dragons XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Bummer. :(
    gggGary likes this.
  7. Kojack

    Kojack XS650 Member

    I think my problem lies in the voltage generated by the SR500 pickup. The Yamaha high speed pickup coil is 15 ohms. The Honda is 150 ohms. There's likely to be different outputs from these coils, probably different enough that the Honda cdi won't work properly. I already have the Suzuki gn250 tci parts and I'll try them but I kind of expect similar results.
    YamadudeXS650C, Jim and gggGary like this.
  8. Rasputin

    Rasputin XS650 Addict XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Someone asked what advance Boyer ignition run. It’s my understanding, after years of Boyer use and reading their info. The early systems MK3/4 non digital, Black box is set at full advance for your particular engine say 38deg.
    The Hall effect fires the amplifier slower as the engine speed decreases, ie nearer TDC to the amount 10 deg. As this is camshaft driven it’s 20 deg crank, so full advance is 38deg minus 20deg equals 18 deg at idle. If you strobe an early Boyer system it’s a bit like a switch.
    The later systems are said to have microprocessors in the amplifier to even out the advance curve in 50rpm increments, but still use the same trigger, they are not programmable by joe public.
    A great system but not perfect. Having said that I use them on most of my bikes.
    My older bikes with points, have the ignition set, points just opening at TDC, but set as such if you then strobe it it runs 6 to 10 deg.
    Paul Sutton and Jim like this.
  9. Kojack

    Kojack XS650 Member

    I'm learning as I go. Most of my electrical knowledge centers around the "don't let the smoke out" theory. wire-harness-smoke-Custom.jpg
  10. Paul Sutton

    Paul Sutton Still Looking Good Top Contributor

    Kojack, you must be a good auto electrician judging by the fact you have not yet broken the seal on that harness smoke bottle...:hump:
  11. Jan_P

    Jan_P XS650 Addict

    I have been reading about the Micro-controllers in the Gonzo box. And in general

    The controller is in essence a small computer CPU and is working with very small current and voltages
    And is then as it seems sensitive.
    We had a discussion of " Dirty signals "


    So if there is a signal in it needs to be of the right value
    but it also needs to be " Filtered " And in the right manner .So not important aspects are filtered out

    I don't know these things but it looks as electronic development
    with components to design

    By a chance I had a Arduino Uno clone at home and for them there exists rpm measuring components ---don't know more right now
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2020
    gggGary and Kojack like this.
  12. Kojack

    Kojack XS650 Member

    I don't have the damn installation tool.
  13. Team Junk

    Team Junk XS650 Guru XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Happy New Year everyone. Looks like I have a lot of catching up to do.

    YamadudeXS650C, Kojack, Jim and 4 others like this.
  14. Team Junk

    Team Junk XS650 Guru XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Heard @Signal has a 277 rephase running. How cool is that.

    Saw thoughts about timing (40 vs 35) effect on idle timing etc.
    If the xs650 spun 15,000 RPM like the bike I was looking at yesterday then yea maybe 5 degrees might be critical.

    If you go back and look, there is discussion early in this thread about timing and the thoughts of the "giants here" groupthink about timing settings are all played out there.

    I have set the timing by the advance till it knocks and then back off some on a few engines and it works well enough to give me a lot of trouble free miles .
    So setting by strobe on a steady crank driven pickup 35 - 40 degrees of advance seems sane enough for me. I suspect 35 will be just fine for me.

  15. Team Junk

    Team Junk XS650 Guru XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    The gy6 boxes (there are 2 flavors of them) were the first store bought ones I tried. No advance.

    I have tried quite a few boxes and when I thought I saw advance from the gonzo box I figured it was my imagination. Was surprised as anyone that it would advance on a magnetic pickup.

    BTW: I don't think your SR500 pickup is really 15 ohms not sure though. lovely bike there one of my favorites, and 5 degrees difference is the difference between starting or throwing you over the side with a kick back on a Yamaha thumper.
    Kojack, Paul Sutton and Jim like this.
  16. Team Junk

    Team Junk XS650 Guru XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Or it "could be " a charge coil for a self powered CDI. The other coil "could be " the signal coil.
    Kojack likes this.
  17. Team Junk

    Team Junk XS650 Guru XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    I doubt that there is a low speed and hi speed coil. That was kinda unique to the 650. Almost all the boxes I've looked at for singles and twins have had only one pickup.
    One of your pickup coils generates the charge that charges the cap in the CDI. The other signals when to fire.

    What year sr I may have a diagram.
    Kojack likes this.
  18. Team Junk

    Team Junk XS650 Guru XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    The signal from the coil that signals when to fire pickup is what you need to trigger the gonzo. If it's too advanced swap the wires to the pickup
    Paul Sutton and Jim like this.
  19. Kojack

    Kojack XS650 Member

    This is the sr500 stator. According to Rex's Speed Shop and the wiring diagram the 90 is the low speed pulser, the 15 is the high speed pulser, the 330 is the the low speed source coil and the 5 is the high speed source coil. Although my source coils tested in range I went with a DC CDI to eliminate that possible problem and hopefully make it easier to start. It seemed to work well. Using the low speed pulser the timing was right on the proper mark for idle speed. Switching to the high speed pulser was giving me around 35 degrees advance although it didn't look as steady. I was working outside on a sunny day and it was tough to see the mark. I've thought about running the bike like this and just switching between retarded and advanced timing like the old bikes did, only electrically. For now the bike is nowhere near roadworthy and my dance card has been pretty full lately. Thanks a bunch for the info on the GY6 CDIs. I kept reading conflicting reports on whether they advance or not. I now have a Gonzo unit that I'll try out when I get some more shop time.

    Attached Files:

    Team Junk and Jim like this.
  20. Team Junk

    Team Junk XS650 Guru XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Color me wrong. I had looked at the 500 thumper boxes (I own several now XT and a SRX) but did not know about the E model having CDI. That's 2 years before the XS650 was equipped with E Ignition. I guess this low-hi pickup thing was the only way Hitachi could do it.

    Actuality 70 pounds (~$90-$100 225CDN - 500CDN is not a bad deal for a somewhat proper CDI for the 500.

    Remember the CDI ignition coil is too low of an impedance to work reliably with the Gonzo Box so that cost also has to be taken into account.
    On the other hand a cross species Gonzo transplant would be cool.
    Paul Sutton and Jim like this.

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