TCI Replacement 2020 It Works

RichRide said:
View attachment 188398
Drawn off memory at work.....I think this is accurate.
Click to expand...

the Schematic .It is clear and fine drawn
Only thing is that power feed at coil Trigger and from 5 A ? On the " Stock " Gonzo
--> as in # 1119
From Gonzo box are 2 --- to pickup + and pickup -
one red W and one orange to ground
In your drawing there are 2 to pickup + and pickup -
one + and one ground and one trigger to coil

Something is different there
Stock Gonzo has only one + line in via Kill SW and connected to box. to coil -- the other is to orange .. and ground

???? + from Gonzo to + from 5 A connected at coil

The extra ground is major thing on other electronic ignitions as per #1119

I believe that is a mistake at least that is against design recommendations for micro controllers .where separation of ground is a main rule.
The shitty spikes and ripple out of a Chinese or worse regulator gets a possibility to hit into the Sensitive controller.

Can of course be other things ..but lets see. The main thing is ( Usually )
that the box should be Shielded / Protected.. from the " Brutes " the big Bullies in the Electric system
 
Is there a key switch to disconnect gonzo from battery and if there is one where on your wiring is it placed ?
 
Jan_P said:
the Schematic .It is clear and fine drawn
Only thing is that power feed at coil Trigger and from 5 A ? On the " Stock " Gonzo
--> as in # 1119
From Gonzo box are 2 --- to pickup + and pickup -
one red W and one orange to ground
In your drawing there are 2 to pickup + and pickup -
one + and one ground and one trigger to coil

Something is different there
Stock Gonzo has only one + line in via Kill SW and connected to box. to coil -- the other is to orange .. and ground

???? + from Gonzo to + from 5 A connected at coil

The extra ground is major thing on other electronic ignitions as per #1119

I believe that is a mistake at least that is against design recommendations for micro controllers .where separation of ground is a main rule.
The shitty spikes and ripple out of a Chinese or worse regulator gets a possibility to hit into the Sensitive controller.

Can of course be other things ..but lets see. The main thing is ( Usually )
that the box should be Shielded / Protected.. from the " Brutes " the big Bullies in the Electric system
Click to expand...

I will ground the gonzo separately direct to battery. This was considered in my troubleshooting at one point but i ruled it out as the components had no issue before with this exact wiring. The schematic I should have been more clear with wire crossover depictions. The power supply is run to the gonzo of the main power harness. It is not a part of the coil "trigger". The only wire from gonzo to coil is the ground trigger
 
Team Junk said:
Is there a key switch to disconnect gonzo from battery and if there is one where on your wiring is it placed ?
Click to expand...

Currently no. I am just placing a spade under the battery screw and using bullet connectors as my switch for testing purposes only. I eliminated any unnecessary resistance and devices. When wired up correctly the main power switch is on the load side of the 20A fuse
 
RichRide said:
Are there any good aftermarket regulators to run with the original chargin components ?
Click to expand...
Have a read here.

RustiePyles said:
Has anyone experienced any heat related issues with the GN250 ignition module?
Click to expand...

I haven't. Did a run last year of about 2 hrs... stopping to check periodically.... never even got warm to the touch.
 
You can pick up auto style voltage regulators for under $20 and swap it in to rule out the suspect regulator. Your 1980 would need and "A" circuit regulator.

Again, another most excellent explanation:

http://www.xs650.com/threads/how-to-combined-a-type-regulator-rectifier.55842/#post-613418

If the diodes pack in your original regulator is ok, you can use it for the rectifier.

As 5Twins explained when I was having charging troubles with mine:

"Yes, you can still use the rectifier portion of your original reg/rec if it's still good. Only hook up the wires that lead to it (3 whites, red, black). The other two wires in the harness plug (brown and green) will get connected to your new regulator."
 
Last edited:
RichRide said:
I will ground the gonzo separately direct to battery. This was considered in my troubleshooting at one point but i ruled it out as the components had no issue before with this exact wiring. The schematic I should have been more clear with wire crossover depictions. The power supply is run to the gonzo of the main power harness. It is not a part of the coil "trigger". The only wire from gonzo to coil is the ground trigger
Click to expand...

I am no expert ..and can have wrong But as a suggestion to think about.
I put it here for safety's sake so we are at the same page I can be totally wrong here it depends on the internals of the box
and for others to intervene

.jpg



I believed that the Gonzo box got its power via the Red/White Kill SW vertical
At the same time the coil got its power on the same wire . horizontal Coil+ Red/ White
Driving a current to orange .that may or may not be to ground all the time ( I believed it was according to Team Junk going to ground not certain
it depends on the Black box so to speak )
Then at the triggered moment ( can be wrong again ) the Red / White is grounded not in the Kill SW but in the gonzo box
Making the Potential the same on both sides of the coil namely ground and no current any more through primary winding and then firing
the spark in secondary winding.

So if one takes the power + 12 V from the Battery instead of from the Kill SW it must also go to the Box for triggering ./ grounding

If this is correct so far then the 12 V from Battery .Battery for reducing ripple and spikes . And preferably not from a wire somewhere in the harness that can have these distortions
And act as an antenna as well.

goes in at the connection between horizontal and vertical and the part to kill Switch is disconnected.
And the ground black down at the right corner Gonzo goes to Minus at the battery .

So 2 extra wires from Battery ... There are the Usual 2 ones +and - minus and one extra ground - to the Box Ground
" Ground Black "
and one extra power 12 V to the coil and box. goes in at the connection between horizontal and vertical

As a suggestion to think about. I have not done the read up can be wrong but the extra ground wire has proven a good thing
a solution In
Close to ten cases I know of.None Gonzo though.
The + 12 V has not been important and later removed getting power the regular way .But can make sense at a fault finding stage
Trying to get the correct physics as far as possible.
 
A tidbit of info regarding the stock ignition. I swapped the OEM alternator slip ring plate back in after linishing it on a vertical sander, and the kickback associated with the replacement neodymium timing magnet on the Rick's alternator plate has vanished. It would seem the neo magnet was over-driving the stock system.
 
Your right about a safety issue here. The gonzo and coils are powered by the Red/White wire for a reason. The r/w wire is switched by the kill switch. Running a wire to the directly from the battery is a good troubleshooting move But.

It also bypass's the kill switch which in the case of a a accident could be very bad. With the Gonzo properly connected to the kill switch controlling power to both the Gonzo and the coils when the switch is off it kills all power to the ignition system stopping the engine and preventing any sparks that could ignite spilled fuel etc.

The Gonzo draws very little power from the red/white wire. It powers a micro processor that draws only a few milliamps. It has filtering on the power input that conditions the small about of power required.

I'm off to work but will talk about grounds and magnets in the Gonzo system when I get home.
 
Grounding the Gonzo.

Grounds have stopped bikes years. With a points system the points and condenser must have a good ground to operate. That can be a challenge with the points and condenser on a movable plate on the side of the head.

The Gonzo on the other hand grounds to the black wire in the stock TCI connector
that is part of what I call the "ground spline" in the stock wiring harness. almost all grounds on the xs650 connect to the ground spline, a single black wire that branches out to most of the grounds on the bike. The reason for this single black ground is to prevent ground loops.

The coil mount ground connection is for rf noise suppression and has nothing to do with creating sparks. The coil grounds through the points or the TCI not to the frame.

The significance of the pickle is if a bad ground is suspected in a TCI or Gonzo system check the main ground. That is where the ignition system gets it ground.
 
MacMcMacmac said:
A tidbit of info regarding the stock ignition. I swapped the OEM alternator slip ring plate back in after linishing it on a vertical sander, and the kickback associated with the replacement neodymium timing magnet on the Rick's alternator plate has vanished. It would seem the neo magnet was over-driving the stock system.
Click to expand...

Can you post a photo of the face of the bad rotor ?
 
TCI wiring power flow.jpg


The top diagram is the TCI/Gonzo power flow. The bottom diagram is a points system.

They both work the same way. The TCI replaces the points with a electronic switch that does the same thing. Grounds the coil at the right time. Both the TCI and the points ground the coil at the right time to create a spark. Notice the power for the coil comes comes from the kill switch not the Gonzo.

Also note the only ground at the coil is the orange wire through the points or the TCI.
 
Following Jim’s suggestion of lightening the rotor on 277 total loss system I now have this unit.

Haven’t weighed it yet I need to get some batteries for the scales. This is going on a stock firing XS based classic racing sidecar. I anything is going to expose a weakness in the Gonzo ignition a classic sidecar will.

Next logical step will be to make light weight rotors from scratch without destroying stock units but one step at a time.


P1030164.JPG
 
Stock rotor goes about three and a half lbs.... and a half lb of that is the copper wire. As a guess, I'd say you're about half a lb. Looks good!
 
Well it has been a year since I started the original Gonzo thread.

Just curious about everyone's experiences and comments.
Have not seen much feedback lately so would appreciate some feedback.

Jack
 
Still have one waiting to go a on a motor...........
AND there's a motor on a stand just about ready for iggy, carbs, n pipes....
 
A quick response
My impression is that it is a bit sensitive to electronic interference
Jim has a working setup ..even if I believe it is a bit to advanced settings
and a bit to much retarded at full advance but nothing major in consideration to the price.. can also be better sounding in real life
And is OK for most type riding styles

Jim has perhaps the best wiring in the world being an ex Professional and takes care off details
Clamping and so
Whereas others has encountered misfiring and other problems with the installation
Nothing surprising in my view And problems that can come with other more expensive Ignitions.Also
I believe there is some more tweaks to do in terms of electronical protection
Cable routing and shielding
Nothing strange that either
Over time some kind of centralized feedback file ..would amass the Know how.
And adjust the installation.
 

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