Thinking about switching back to points

[Captainplanet]

So currently I am finishing up the last bit of my 1983 xs build. I bought a pamco brand new a while back along with all the advance unit and rod. I went to start the bike but no spark. I searched the forums and did the suggested tests to no avail. I also tried three different coils and nothing. I am a little frustrated at this point and thinking maybe of just throwing a points system in since I have the the rod and advance unit. This bike has taken me quite a while and am frustrated to the point where I might just buy another ignition before I do that does anybody else have any other suggestions? Also, if anybody is an xs wizard in the Phoenix area and has an hour or two to spare and take a look that would be a huge help. I can provide beer, food, cash, etc. Thank you guys!

 

[fredintoon]

Hi Cap'n,
OK, an '83 would have had TCI, what led you to swap in a Pamco anyway?

 

[retiredgentleman]

The Pamco has a warranty.

 

[Captainplanet]

I bought it with a boyer in there and the owner said that the ignition needed to be replaced. I didn't test it because the bike needed carb work amongst other things and just bought a new pamco amongst the other parts and converted it to cdi.

 

[CDNTX650]

You are sure it's wired properly....? going back to points is the last thing I would do.

 

[weaselbeak]

I have been stranded several times in my life with electronic ignition. On a GS Suzuki, an XS650, a GN400 Suzuki, and a KZ440. None of them were old or high mileage at the time. I have never been stranded with misbehaving points. Easy to fix, cheap to carry spares, and they work just fine. It's not rocket science to get them right, either.

 

[fredintoon]

I bought it with a boyer in there and the owner said that the ignition needed to be replaced. I didn't test it because the bike needed carb work amongst other things and just bought a new pamco amongst the other parts and converted it to cdi.

Hi Cap'n,
so you are struggling with a PO's can of worms?
BTDT and have shared the frustration.
Perhaps putting the ignition back to stock with used parts would work?

 

[tonyc]

I have been riding with a Boyer about four years and the only problem I ever had was the poor coil that comes with the Boyer. When I switched to Mr. Riggs G.M. coil set up I have not experienced any problems.

Posted via Mobile

 

[wherearewe]

You say you are finishing up the last of the build. Might be an obvious one but worth asking. Have you tried making a simple test circuit? Literally the bare minimum to fire? If you are getting no spark at all, perhaps it could be a wiring mistake, bad fuse or connector?

If you have done this, tried a couple of coils and still no avail, and your battery is good with good circuit then all that leaves is the Pamco.

 

[Tomterrific]

The PAMCO power transistor is easy to blow. Did you have spark plugs in with the wires on during the installation? Merely turning on the key, then off with a plug wire not grounded will pop a transistor.

Tom

 

[pamcopete]

Here is a video of a PAMCO driving the "Ultimate" coil with one spark plug wire not connected to the coil.

There are two points to be made here:

1. The coil does not self destruct nor is the PAMCO damaged.
2. The spark on the plug that is still connected to the coil is very weak.

#2 means that if you do unplug a plug to adjust the sync of the carbs, the spark is so weak on the connected plug that it will not be reliable to set the sync and you will end up with a mess. If you are going to disconnect a plug to sync the carbs, then ground the unused plug wire so you will get a healthy spark on the plug that is connected. This will also ensure no damage to the coils other than the 17-6903 "Ultimate" coil. It is still not recommended to disconnect a plug in a wasted spark system.

Back in 2008 when this product was first introduced, the so called "Green Monster" coil was recommended. That coil had a tendency to short out the primary winding if you ran the ignition with one spark plug lead disconnected. The short was instantaneous and destructive to the transistor in the PAMCO. We no longer recommend using the "Green Monster" coil.

 

[Gcraay]

This may sound simplistic, but I've had grounding problems with cars before. I would try grounding it in another spot, or triple check your current grounds and connections. The answer is likely simple.

 

[Tomterrific]

Hi Pete,

So the ultimate coil shorts internally?

Tom

 

[pamcopete]

Hi Pete,

So the ultimate coil shorts internally?

Tom

Tom,

No. Please read my post again. It was the "Green Monster" coils that had a propensity to short internally. The video that I posted showing a plug disconnected was made with the "Ultimate Coil" which is one of the currently recommended coils. The "Ultimate Coil" does not short internally with a plug disconnected. Again, the "Ultimate Coil" is fine, it does not short internally with a plug disconnected as the video demonstrates. Watch the video.

Note: The "Ultimate Coil" 17-6903 is not the same as the "Green Monster" coil 17-6810

 

[CDNTX650]

I hated that green monster coil. Any chance that stupid thing got to arc from the towers to frame it did so. Dyna mini coil is my weapon of choice.

 

[Tomterrific]

How does the circuit complete if the coil doesn't arc to ground somehow? I just don't see how this can work.

Tom

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

It travels thru Nikola Tesla's Universal Ether, the Darpa Grid, and that black angus bull standing across the road from me.


And is he pissed!!!

 

[CDNTX650]

It travels thru Nikola Tesla's Universal Ether, the Darpa Grid, and that black angus bull standing across the road from me.


And is he pissed!!!

watch out for that earthquake machine too!!!

 

[timbeck]

TwoMany is the best !! tim

 

[pamcopete]

How does the circuit complete if the coil doesn't arc to ground somehow? I just don't see how this can work.

Tom

Tom,

The current from the dual output coil goes out one of the spark plug wires, to that spark plug, across the gap of that spark plug, through the metal head to the other spark plug, across the gap of that spark plug, to the wire attached to that spark plug, and back to the coil. There is no reference to ground or return to ground. The secondary winding is "floating" and not referenced to ground.

One of the results of this is that one of the spark plug wires from the coil has a negative voltage and the other has a positive voltage in reference to each other, not to ground. There is no ground reference in a dual output coil.