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To Split, or Not To Split (was broken sump bolt)

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by jetmechmarty, Mar 16, 2020.

  1. gggGary

    gggGary Stop that! XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Cool!
    might want to check cam chain and valves again.
     
    grizld1, Jim and jetmechmarty like this.
  2. jetmechmarty

    jetmechmarty What should I put here? XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Right after I replace the exhaust gaskets. Yeppers!
     
    MaxPete, grizld1, Jim and 1 other person like this.
  3. 5twins

    5twins XS650 Guru Top Contributor

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    Check the cam chain setting while the engine sits there idling. If it's at fault, tightening it up will make the noise magically disappear as you're adjusting it.
     
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  4. Hightower-Ash98

    Hightower-Ash98 XS650 Addict XS650.com Supporter

    .... I cannot possibly express how ridiculous I feel for lifting the engine out of the frame by hand when there's such an... efficient way to get it done
     
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  5. jetmechmarty

    jetmechmarty What should I put here? XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    I replaced the exhaust gaskets and adjusted the valves again. It’s better, but still noisy.



    Operating temp.
     
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  6. Jim

    Jim Beyond the edge is the unknown. Here be Dragons XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Dunno Marty.... still sounds like valves and chain to me. You gettin' good oil flow in the head?
     
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  7. jetmechmarty

    jetmechmarty What should I put here? XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Tomorrow, I’ll crank it up with valve cover off. It should make a mess.
     
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  8. 5twins

    5twins XS650 Guru Top Contributor

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    Like I said, do the cam chain adjust while it sits there idling. Then you can actually hear if it's making any difference. You might want to check the cam chain adjuster too and make sure the damper washer is there. It'll tick like that without it.
     
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  9. gggGary

    gggGary Stop that! XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Yeah Marty did you do the chain engine idling? then use the ole screw driver in your ear or stethoscope to narrow down where the sound is coming from. What settings on the valves? check valve stem ends for spalling?
     
    Jim likes this.
  10. jetmechmarty

    jetmechmarty What should I put here? XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    I did the cam chain adjust when it ran the first time. Damper washer is something I’ll have to check.

    Valves are .006 I and .015 E
    I readjusted them last night. They went tight after the first run.
     
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  11. Machine

    Machine Race the wind Top Contributor

    :umm:
    Typo?
     
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  12. jetmechmarty

    jetmechmarty What should I put here? XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Metric
     
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  13. MaxPete

    MaxPete Lucille, Betty & Demi - I suggest but THEY decide. XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    FWIW - the following are the leading manufacturers of bearings and seals globally (interestingly, a lot of these firms trade under three-letter company names):
    • SKF (Swedish)
    • Schaeffler: (German) divisions include FAG (large industrial bearings), LuK (German - mainly automotive clutches and actuators), INA (smaller bearings and other automotive & industrial components)
    • MPB (American - Miniature Precision Bearings)
    • Torrington (American)
    • NSK (Japanese)
    • NTN (Japanese, I think)
    • JTEKT (Japanese - I think)
    • THK (Japanese)
    • Timken (American)
    • FAFNIR (originally German)
    • Aisin-Seiki (Japanese)
    There are others but those are most of the biggies. Each of these firms has a long history and almost all of them have had to battle cheap and inferior counterfeit products over the years. The best ways to spot a counterfeit are:
    • silly spelling errors like the one pointed out above;
    • a price that is simply too good to be true.
    While they look very simple, there is a lot that can go wrong with a bearing. In fact, making good bearings is not easy and it is pretty capitol-intensive, so anyone selling components like bearings and seals at really low prices likely is hiding something.

    ...like dimensional accuracy, correct surface finish, durable materials and overall quality for example.

    An interesting side note is that Schaeffler and its various divisions is the firm where my students are working right now in Germany.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2020
    TwoManyXS1Bs, nhsteve and GLJ like this.
  14. MaxPete

    MaxPete Lucille, Betty & Demi - I suggest but THEY decide. XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    That sounds an awful lot like Lucille did when the front timing chain guide lost its plastic shoe. Sorry Marty - but it really does. I would suggest pulling the sump plate off and checking for long black plastic slivers.

    Here is the YouTube video that Jim helped me post of the noise:


    If you check my thread entitled "Lucille pulls another one on me" - its all there.

    Pete
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2020
  15. jetmechmarty

    jetmechmarty What should I put here? XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    upload_2020-3-26_11-28-45.png

    #15 correct? I'll pull the tensioner this evening. Hopefully, it's the culprit.
     
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  16. jetmechmarty

    jetmechmarty What should I put here? XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Briefly, I worked for Koyo in North Georgia. I think that was 2013. The plant was on Torrington Drive, because Torrington built the plant. That plant was sold to Timken. Then sold again to Koyo. Koyo is owned by JTEKT and yes, it's Japanese. I don't know anything about the current status of Torrington or Timken. I will tell you that I use Koyo bearings whenever I can get them. I was very impressed with their quality control and pride in their product.
     
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  17. jetmechmarty

    jetmechmarty What should I put here? XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    If this ends up being the case, the engine will go back in the corner and Ole Smoky will go back in the bike. I did pull the sump pate and replaced the screen. No tensioner rubber was visible, and I always look for it. I'm hopeful that 5Twins gave me the answer.
     
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  18. gggGary

    gggGary Stop that! XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Often not appreciated Is that like diamonds, bearings come in grades. The same size bearing will have major differences in spec and PRICE between one destined for a car wheel hub and one used in the spindle of a milling machine.
     
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  19. gggGary

    gggGary Stop that! XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Yeah was scared to say the front guide thing.
    Don Lawson?
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2020
    MaxPete likes this.
  20. 5twins

    5twins XS650 Guru Top Contributor

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    Yes, #15. Depending on the year of the motor, you should find a copper or rubber/metal damper washer on the plunger .....

    [​IMG]

    You can easily and safely pull the adjuster screw/spring/plunger assembly out as shown above with no ill effects. No loose parts or anything will fall off inside. Earlier motors used a 2mm thick copper damper washer. Later motors used a 3mm thick rubber/metal washer. If yours is missing, to determine which damper washer is correct for your assembly, measure the length of the adjuster screw. If it is 60mm long, it takes the 2mm thick copper washer. If it is 59mm long, it uses the 3mm thick rubber/metal washer.

    [​IMG]
     
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