Tranny Experts

[Shipper]

While rebuilding the transmission, I took the time to replace #4 gear in the starter complex as it showed significant wear. Not having the experience of knowing how the starter gears worked prior to tear down, I thought I might follow Tech Bulletin M5-071 (attached)

and replace the shaft clip accordingly even though it states 650c and not 650b, like mine. However, after trying it in place in looked pretty close to the top of the channel for the old clip. In fact, the old clip (when inserted into the channel) is close as well with apparent wear on the top suggesting it may?? have been dislodging. Both pics are with the gears pressed in against the casing.

Any suggestions?

Would hate to have to go without the electrics.

 

[5twins]

Well, you don't really have any choice with the new clip. It's too wide to fit in the old position so must be placed next to it like the tech bulletin shows.

 

[Shipper]

Ya, sorry Twins - left out the part about using the old clip on the new gear. It seems to still fit snug enough on the gear and looks like it gives better seating than the new clip. Especially if you look at the diagram in the bulletin where the new clip is very close to the bottom of the casing and my new clip isn't.

Just don't know its worth using the new guy or if that bit of wear suggests the old one is slipping. Thought maybe someone out there has been through it.

What's really strange is it looks to me like the wear on that channel looks like its coming right to left (outside channel to inside channel), which would mean the clip clears the channel and then rubs coming back in?? That make sense to anyone?

 

[Shipper]

OK, sometimes I really got to talk to myself to figure it out. The clip 'starts' outside the channel and will seat in it once the starter is engaged. Then on release it rests again outside the channel so I guess it really doesn't matter if the new clip is used. Having said that, what's the purpose of having the channel in the first place?

Ya, sorry Twins - left out the part about using the old clip on the new gear. It seems to still fit snug enough on the gear and looks like it gives better seating than the new clip. Especially if you look at the diagram in the bulletin where the new clip is very close to the bottom of the casing and my new clip isn't.

Just don't know its worth using the new guy or if that bit of wear suggests the old one is slipping. Thought maybe someone out there has been through it.

What's really strange is it looks to me like the wear on that channel looks like its coming right to left (outside channel to inside channel), which would mean the clip clears the channel and then rubs coming back in?? That make sense to anyone?

OOOOPS!

Disregard the previous message - I had the clip gear in backwards. I really think I'm going with the new spring/4th gear and original clip and gear. If I have to tear the side cover off down the road - so be it.

 

[5twins]

The new type clip is made from heavier wire (larger diameter) and is supposedly stronger than the old one. That was the whole purpose of the upgrade, to get a stronger clip that wouldn't spread open and weaken as readily or quickly. It still does though, eventually.

 

[Shipper]

The new type clip is made from heavier wire (larger diameter) and is supposedly stronger than the old one. That was the whole purpose of the upgrade, to get a stronger clip that wouldn't spread open and weaken as readily or quickly. It still does though, eventually.

Thanks Twins - useful info. Quick question, do the clip gears spin clockwise or counter clockwise? Disregard, - clockwise.

 

[5twins]

Honestly, I don't know.

 

[Mikey]

OK, sometimes I really got to talk to myself to figure it out. The clip 'starts' outside the channel and will seat in it once the starter is engaged. Then on release it rests again outside the channel so I guess it really doesn't matter if the new clip is used. Having said that, what's the purpose of having the channel in the first place?


OOOOPS!

Disregard the previous message - I had the clip gear in backwards. I really think I'm going with the new spring/4th gear and original clip and gear. If I have to tear the side cover off down the road - so be it.

I am going to do the same thing new gear old clip
There was a thread some where on here that said you could use the old gear even if it was gnarly
Just tension the clip to 5lbs or better Tried that and it didn't work long (clip had to have got out of tension again)
I manage to score a NOS gear and I have several old clips to try
I just never understood that little weak spring behind # 4 gear , How would you know if it ever was too weak

 

[Shipper]

The return spring that comes new is clearly stronger than the old one but the clip doesn't seem that different other than OD as Twins said earlier, BUT - what in fact is the purpose of the clip? The spring returns the starter wheel.

 

[Shipper]

Again, disregard the foregoing regarding the spring clip on #4 gear/starting wheel. I found the proper link in the gallery. Pretty straight forward. "Tension on the starter wheel gear". Going to test the tension on the Mikes clip again and likely use it on the Mikes #4.

 

[xjwmx]

I used a Mike's clip as it was out of the box and never had a problem with it. Same time I put on a Mike's spring, 'cause it came with the kit I think, and it lasted about 12 years before it gnarled up. The original spring is ground flat on the ends to sit better. Don't know if the strength of the spring is important -- someone here who generally gave good technical advice had removed his altogether for some reason and it was working.

 

[lakeview]

Very important to squeeze the clip so it grips the gear. Several threads here on the how to, including one in Tech section.

 

[Shipper]

Really appreciate all of the input. Invaluable info.

One more issue - I've decided to go with the Mike's replacement #4 and clip and spring. I'll double check the tension on the clip according to the input and extensive threads. The replacement clip has a flat side. Does it matter which way the flat side faces in the grove? Can't find any mention of positioning the flat side.