Tungsten disulfide lubricant anyone mess with it?

[gggGary]

seems like interesting stuff, could be used as an oil additive (one time?) may be great for gear teeth and dogs. not so much for the wet clutch though, eh? Was thinking on the clutch push rod at the oil seal. Chuck the rod in a drill press or lathe and work some in. kinda been thinking making a couple of push rods out of some cold rolled 5/16" rod. this stuff on seal area and the ends also worked into piston skirts, etc. Add to cable lube! Just looking for some input.

 

[Jim]

Add to cable lube!

That sounds interesting. Not sure of the adhesion ability while it's suspended in oil though.

My concern with coating anything within the engine is that as it wears, it becomes suspended in the oil. If it will in fact adhere to stuff while in suspension... the clutch plates are gonna get real slippery.

I'd be very interested in the results of any experiment you try.

 

[Jim]

Just found this here....

"1) Mixing the WS2 powder with wet lubricants (such as oil, grease & other synthetic lubricants):
The powder can be mixed 1wt% to 15wt% (as required) with grease or oil. This will enhance lubricity of the mixture and also improves High Temperature and Extreme Pressure properties of mixture. During the use, WS2 in the mixture will get coated on mating/moving parts, which in turn reduces friction and improves lubricity and load bearing ability for much longer cycles."

 

[MaxPete]

Hmmmm....it sounds to me that no matter what it does to help bearings and gears, it would mess up a wet clutch.

Really - that’s the problem with just about any oil additive in our bikes. You simply cannot segregate the oils from the clutch from the oil that is used elsewhere in the engine and transmission.

Pete

 

[gggGary]

Yes aside from out of engine lube like chain and cables. It seems like a preferred application is either vacuum deposition OR 120PSI "sandblast". in a cabinet the particles are VERY small. hand wipe rub as a paste with pure alcohol is another low tech application method. Apparently it is INSEPARABLE from a metal part once applied. so apply wash off any loose and install, no migration. One engineering article mentioned supplied particle size as being very important, don't want bigger chunks stuck on bearing races. It's lube properties come from the physical shape of the molecules, an analogy was like walking on a bunch of playing cards spread on a smooth floor!

 

[MaxPete]

The only part of that which causes me concern is the word “inseparable”.

That just....makes me worried.

 

[gggGary]

Divorce anxiety?

 

[Jim]

Divorce anxiety?

That's a "slippery slope" you're goin' down there....

 

[Paul Sutton]

Just curious - How would this Tungsten Disulfide on the wet clutch differ from packing with Lithium grease?

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

Great thread, Gary. I *love* snakeoils, and been wanting to play with nanotech ever since studying Buckyballs (Buckminsterfullerene). The only thread I recall discussing Tungsten Disulfide:

http://www.xs650.com/threads/piston-skirt-length.36064/

So, I just ordered a bottle of Archoil AR2500 assembly lube:

https://ktperformance.net/i-12758099-archoil-ar2500-parts-assembly-lube-16oz.html

http://www.archoil.com

I have a specific test scenario in mind.
Got any spare roundtuits?

Spec sheet PDF attached...

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

UPS driver just dropped this off.

I understand that this is a staple in Jay Leno's garage.


Still waiting on the roundtuit...

 

[gggGary]

Can't wait to hear some results!

 

[MaxPete]

That looks like really neat stuff 2M! Would you mind giving us an idea of what it cost?

I hope you don't mind if I offer a couple of cautions based on the specs given on the bottle:

• those coefficients of friction are amazingly low - this stuff would be kind of dangerous if you spilled it on the floor and then tried to walk on it;
• the particle size (given as 70 nm) is really small - so I wouldn't want to use it on or anywhere near an open cut or even on bare skin.

Really interested to hear how this works!

Pete

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

About 8 minutes of jay.

 

[MaxPete]

That is an excellent video 2M!

I learned about the POR15 fuel tank treatment through Jay Leno's garage - same type of thing.

Please keep us posted.

Pete

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

That looks like really neat stuff 2M! Would you mind giving us an idea of what it cost?

$40 for the 16 oz bottle, $15 shipping.

I hope you don't mind if I offer a couple of cautions based on the specs given on the bottle:

• those coefficients of friction are amazingly low - this stuff would be kind of dangerous if you spilled it on the floor and then tried to walk on it;
• the particle size (given as 70 nm) is really small - so I wouldn't want to use it on or anywhere near an open cut or even on bare skin.

Normal oiled metal/metal COF is about 0.15. WS2 claimed = 0.03.
About 1/5th of original COF.
Wuz thinkin about a peak sliding friction scenario of XS650 piston/cylinder during upstroke, about 30° ABDC, angled conrod trying to push the piston forward against the cylinder, about 50lbs, down to 10lbs. Sounds nice.

Yes, health warnings about exposure to nanotech.
I'll be using gloves...

 

[Paul Sutton]

In the Leno video at 1:23 Jay asks if it is Teflon like and the company man says it contains Boron which is really slippery. The plastic container in Entry 11 above seems to only mention the Tungsten Disulfide.

Will Archoil AR2500 mess with a wet clutch, or is Tungsten Disulfide safe to use but Boron additive not??

There is another product Archoil 9100 which is nano Borate not Tungsten Disulfide. They claim it to be wet clutch safe::
http://www.archoil.com/ar9000-friction-modifiers/

Perhaps the use of the term "wet clutch" is not a reference to motorcycles but refers to the wet clutch as found in automatic transmissions? Perhaps there is no difference??

Edit: In the video the big container on Jay's left is the 9100 and the smaller on his far left is the 2500.

 

[Paul Sutton]

MaxPete, the bottle clearly states Non-Toxic. It must be safe then, even to drink. I think we must trust these golden words from the manufacturer. Also, some may feel the nano-particles are there as part of a world depopulation conspiracy, but again we must trust the manufacturer because they have appeared live on TV.

 

[MaxPete]

Hmmmm..yes, you could very well be right Paul, but I try to be cautious.

EDIT: just to expand on the nanotechnology issue: I know a chap who got into quite a lot of difficulty because he handled a nano material with his bare hands. While the substance itself was not toxic, the nano-sized particles were so small that they actually penetrated his skin and the resultant tissue irritation became a serious matter.

 

[gggGary]

A one ounce bottle of "nano tungsten disulfide" $15 delivered is here, what to use it on first????

We currently use this powder in the front and rear diff's and transmission on the Can-Am Commander. Cuts down on gear noise and wear. We use (2grams) per 15oz of gear lube. There are many uses for this lubricant and application rate will vary depending on the usage. You are purchasing 28 grams / 1oz of powder in a easy to use flip to container.

Solid/Dry Lubricant

Tungsten Disulfide (WS2) Powder

Tungsten Disulfide (WS2) is one of the most lubricous materials known to science. With Coefficient of Friction at 0.03, it offers excellent dry lubricity unmatched to any other substance. It can also be used in high temperature and high pressure applications. It offers temperature resistance from

-450 oF (-270oC) to 1200oF (650oC) in normal atmosphere and from -305oF (-188oC) to 2400oF

(1316oC) in Vacuum. Load bearing property of coated film is extremely high at 300,000 psi.

Since the powder offers one of the lowest Coefficient of Friction (Dynamic @ 0.03 & Static @ 0.07), the applications are unlimited and could be tried with every conceivable idea.

WS2 powder can be added to Oil/Lubricant/Liquid/Water/Plastic etc. to increase lubricity of mixture. WS2 can also be coated on a substrate by Spraying/Buffing/Tumbling.

Physical and Technical Properties Properties

Tungsten Disulfide (WS2)

CAS No 12138-09-9

Colour

Silver Gray

Appearance

Crystalline Solid

Melting Point

1250o C, 1260o C (decomposes)

Boiling Point

1260o C

Density

7500 Kg.m-3

Molecular Weight

248

Coefficient of Friction

0.03 Dynamic; 0.07 Static

Load bearing ability

300,000 psi for coated film

Lubrication Temperature Range

Ambient: from -273o C to 650o C

Vacuum(10-14 Torr): from -188o C to 1316o C

Chemical Durability

Inert Substance, Non-Toxic

Magnetism

Non-Magnetic

Rockwell Hardness

30 HRc

Coating Specifications

Spray Blast substrate with Cold and Dry Air at 120 PSI

Coating Film Thickness

0.5 micron

Corrosion Stability

Can slow down the corrosion rate, but can not fully prevent substrate corrosion

Coatable Substrates

Iron, Steel, Aluminum, Copper, other Metals, Plastics and Manmade Solids

Compatibility

Oil, Solvent, Paint, Fuel, Water, Resin/Plastic,