Turn signal cancel unit

Deukje

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I would like to figure out how the turn signal cancel unit is functioning, especially as I want to replace the stock turning signal relay by an automotive type.
The turn signal cancel unit is located all the way in the front of the frame, below the petrol tank.
You will easily find a picture of it on google.
The wirings are like this :
  • White/Red ==> Mystery, not even showing on my electrical diagram !
  • Yellow/Green ==> goes to the turn signal relay, powering it (I guess)
  • Yellow/Red ==> going to the turn signal switch (pulled to GND when not neutral position).
  • White/Green ==> goes to the reed switch; not implemented on my 1977-XS650
  • Black ==> GND
  • Brown ==> +12 V when contact is on.

The above are my assumptions, to be confirmed.
More specific I would like to know what the function of this White/Red wire would be. Is it due to be connected to +12 V as well?
Anyone has some more info on this ?
 
In the 77 diagram I'm looking at the canceler uses a reed switch, mounted in the rear of the speedo. The reed switch grounds the green/white wire. it uses this signal to determine distance traveled.
The green/yellow is a ground I think. The third wire on the earlier flashers was.
The brown wire is power in.
Black is ground.
The red/yellow goes to the turn switch.
Beyond that I don't know how it works.
All years look to use the same canceler.
Most people trash it. When new they worked ok. After all these years not so much. better to trash it and learn to shut the turns off your self. It won't work right with any store bought flasher.
From what the Yamaha specs are it turns off the signals after a predetermined time and/or distance.
Not much help but there you are.
Leo
 
Guess what ?
The famous white/red wire on the female connector of the canceler unit, is connected to the white/green wire of the wiring harness male connector !! :yikes:
The white/green wire on the female connector of the canceler unit is not connected.

The yellow/green wire on the female connector of the canceler unit goes definitely to the turning indicator relay, powering it (or not).

When the turning indicator switch is pushed to either left or right, it will have white/red pulled to ground (as I already suggested, studying the wiring diagram).

To cut a long story short, after doing some tests with all the components isolated in a test hookup, I decided to just indeed trash the canceler unit :cool:, and connect the brown wire to the green/yellow wire, in order to put +12V straight to my automotive flashing relay...
:bike:
 
@Leo:
You can only remove the canceler unit, if you keep the stock turn relay.
However, I wanted to replace the stock turn relay by an electronic automotive turn (or flash) relay.
What I did, is cutting the canceler unit from it's (female) plug.
Using a paperclip, that I inserted into the small latch openings in the connector, I removed all the contacts, except for the Yellow/Red and Yellow/Green wires, which I stripped, and soldered together.
Then, I put the female plug back into the male plug attached to the wiring harness.

The idea is apparently to avoid that the turn signal relay would be powered all the time. This is done by pulling the Yellow/Green only to ground (via a second pair of contacts in the turning indicator switch, wired Yellow/Red) ONLY while the turn signal switch is activated.

Secondly, the Brown and Yellow/Green wires need to be reversed inside the connector if you want to replace the stock NipponDenso turn relay by an electronic turn relay, AND if an ISO-type is used (style EP35). If you have a JSO-type relay (style EP34), which is conform to the stock NipponDenso FN257C turn relay (Japanese), this modification is NOT required !
More info on turn signal relay-types: check out http://www.tridon.com.au/databank/documents/CAT015_Automotive-Relay.pdf
As I am living in Europe, I had to do this modification, in order to use an automotive electronic turn signal relay (that I recovered from some old Opel: SIEMENS 5WK1 604 ).

However: having done all this, eliminating the canceler unit, I find that I need to keep the turn signal switch pushed to either left or right, as it will come back immediately !
That's probably the reason that a "delay" is generated by the canceler unit ???
So if that is true, you CANNOT remove it, without affecting the behaviour of the turn signal switch and lights ! :doh:
 
However: having done all this, eliminating the canceler unit, I find that I need to keep the turn signal switch pushed to either left or right, as it will come back immediately !
That's probably the reason that a "delay" is generated by the canceler unit ???
So if that is true, you CANNOT remove it, without affecting the behaviour of the turn signal switch and lights ! :doh:

yes the swith is self centering but the lights should still flash for that side without cancelling until you push the switch button straight in... your flasher should be powered by a light brown wire then the brown/white goes up to the turn switch
 
Jayel,
You are absolutely right !
Remark : I still had to cut out the connection via the Yellow/Red wire (pulled to ground via the secondary contacts in the turn switch).
Conclusion:
Yellow/Green should go, from the turn relay, straight to ground, when the canceler unit is eliminated !

Having it run via the secondary contacts in the turn switch (as I described), over the Yellow/Red wire, causes exactly this behaviour : only flashing for as long as the switch is kept in L or R. Not very handy...
 
In a way - that IS the ultimate self cancelling turn signal: it stops when you stop pushing it. I always thought that was a goofy system on Harleys but the more I delve into turn signals, the more I like it.
 
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Scraping the reed switch is a bit of work. You have to pull off the speedo to get to it.
Perhaps some of the older Harley's you had to hold the button to use the flashers, On my 03 you don't. one push and they stay flashing till they stop by themselves or you hit the other side button.
Push both at once and you get 4 way flashers.
Leo
 
Yeah all done cheers guys the speedo damper was missing and both speedo bulbs were out I’ll prob take the speedo /tach off just run a mini speedo trying to sort my indicators at the mo :thumbsup:
 
a lot of bikes ARE that way , my Harley is push and hold at least you don't run down the road with your blinker going for 5 miles
Yea my 1988 Sportster is like that the 1992 has the self canceler thing. Surprisingly wife's 2013 Vespa GTV stays on till she remembers to shut it off!
 
Really weird does the stock electrics only like stock indicators tried a few different alternatives but had to take a set of my other 650 before it worked fine tried different flasher unit but only worked with originals scratchin me head :(
 
Guessing you switched to LED's?
This gets mentioned online occasionally. Yes , the stock flasher likes the stock low watt bulbs.
-R
 
I never tried LED signals, don't see the need because they're not on constantly. But yes, the stock flasher is made to work with a certain amount of wattage, exactly what 4 stock bulbs give. I think it also needs the little indicator in the dash too. It's just another couple watts but I think it's needed too. And the originals aren't low wattage, I think each is 23 watts.

I've just lined up some aftermarket replacements for a luggage rack/saddlebag mount I want to put on. Luckily they are 23 watt so should cause no issues.
 
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