What Brand of Valve Seals are Best?

[abyssmaltailgate]

Here it is, the age old question: Are the replacement valve seals sold on Mike's XS any good?

Who's running them? Comments? Concerns?

I'm having trouble finding a complete set of NOS valve seals online and am wondering what kind y'all are running?

 

[jimschill]

Following. Same question.

 

[abyssmaltailgate]

Kibblewhite makes an assortment of valve train components for the XS650. I'm planning on running their springs and valves with my 277 rephased cam with stock lift... Anyway, they make "valve guides" for our bikes, but I don't see any valve seals. They appear to serve the same function although the guides are longer than the stock seals mentioned in the Haynes manual. I'm wondering if this keeps the valves in position better.

Attached is the page from their catalog that features the XS products. Additionally, here's the link to the catalog: https://issuu.com/kibblewhite/docs/2015kpmi_full_catalog_v1?e=18458457/14429959#search

(their table of contents is off... XS650 goodies on pg. 199, not pg. 195)

 

[scabber]

Mikes are ok. They come in the Athena gasket sets.

 

[gggGary]

You don't need (or want) NOS But it's hard to go wrong with new seals from Yamaha.

Yamaha 341-12119-02-00 SEAL,VALVE STEM is used on these models and components:

1970 XS1 VALVE
1971 XS1B VALVE
1972 XS2 VALVE
1973 TX650 VALVE
1973 TX750 VALVE - ROCKER ARM
1974 TX650A VALVE ROCKER ARM TX650A - XS650B - C
1974 TX750A VALVE - ROCKER ARM
1975 XS650B TOP END GASKET KIT XS650B - C
1975 XS650B VALVE ROCKER ARM TX650A - XS650B - C
1976 TT500C TOP END GASKET KIT
1976 TT500C VALVE
1976 XT500C VALVE - ROCKER ARM
1977 TT500D VALVE
1977 XS650D TOP END GASKET KIT XS650D E E006501- F
1977 XS650D VALVE ROCKER ARM XS650D E E006501- F
1977 XT500D TOP END GASKET KIT
1977 XT500D VALVE - ROCKER ARM
1978 SR500E VALVE - ROCKER ARM
1978 XS650E GASKET KIT XS650E F
1978 XS650SE VALVE ROCKER ARM
1978 XS650SE VALVE-ROCKER ARM
1978 XS650SE-11 VALVE ROCKER ARM
1978 XS650SE-11 VALVE-ROCKER ARM
1978 XT500E TOP END GASKET KIT
1978 XT500E VALVE - ROCKER ARM
1978 XT500E_205 VALVE - ROCKER ARM
1979 SR500F VALVE-ROCKER ARM
1979 TT500F GASKET KIT
1979 TT500F VALVE - ROCKER ARM
1979 XS650SF VALVE ROCKER ARM
1979 XS650SF VALVE-ROCKER ARM
1979 XS650_2F VALVE - ROCKER ARM
1979 XT500F GASKET KIT
1979 XT500F VALVE - ROCKER ARM
1980 SR500G VALVE
1980 TT500G VALVE
1980 XS650G TOP END GASKET KIT
1980 XS650G VALVE
1980 XS650SG VALVE ROCKER ARM
1980 XS650SG VALVE-ROCKER ARM
1980 XT500G VALVE
1981 SR500H VALVE
1981 TT500H VALVE
1981 VIRAGO 750 - XV750H TOP END GASKET KIT
1981 VIRAGO 750 - XV750H VALVE
1981 XS650H TOP END GASKET KIT
1981 XS650H VALVE
1981 XS650SH TOP END GASKET KIT
1981 XS650SH VALVE
1981 XT500H VALVE
1981 XV920RH TOP END GASKET KIT
1981 XV920RH VALVE
1982 VIRAGO 750 - XV750J TOP END GASKET KIT
1982 VIRAGO 750 - XV750J VALVE
1982 XS650SJ VALVE
1982 XV920J TOP END GASKET KIT
1982 XV920J VALVE
1982 XV920RJ VALVE
1983 MIDNIGHT VIRAGO 750 - XV750MK TOP END GASKET KIT
1983 MIDNIGHT VIRAGO 750 - XV750MK VALVE
1983 VIRAGO 750 - XV750K TOP END GASKET KIT
1983 VIRAGO 750 - XV750K VALVE
1983 XS650SK VALVE
1983 XV920K TOP END GASKET KIT
1983 XV920K VALVE
1983 XV920MK VALVE
1984 VIRAGO 1000 - XV1000L TOP END GASKET KIT
1984 VIRAGO 1000 - XV1000L VALVE
1984 VIRAGO 1000 - XV1000LC TOP END GASKET KIT
1984 VIRAGO 1000 - XV1000LC VALVE
1984 VIRAGO 700 - XV700L TOP END GASKET KIT
1984 VIRAGO 700 - XV700L VALVE
1984 VIRAGO 700 - XV700LC TOP END GASKET KIT
1984 VIRAGO 700 - XV700LC VALVE
1985 VIRAGO 1000 - XV1000N TOP END GASKET KIT
1985 VIRAGO 1000 - XV1000N VALVE
1985 VIRAGO 1000 - XV1000NC TOP END GASKET KIT
1985 VIRAGO 1000 - XV1000NC VALVE
1985 VIRAGO 700 - XV700N TOP END GASKET KIT
1985 VIRAGO 700 - XV700N VALVE
1985 VIRAGO 700 - XV700NC TOP END GASKET KIT
1985 VIRAGO 700 - XV700NC VALVE
1986 VIRAGO 1100 - XV1100S VALVE
1986 VIRAGO 1100 - XV1100SC VALVE
1986 VIRAGO 700 - XV700CS TOP END GASKET KIT
1986 VIRAGO 700 - XV700CS VALVE
1986 VIRAGO 700 - XV700CSC TOP END GASKET KIT
1986 VIRAGO 700 - XV700CSC VALVE
1986 VIRAGO 700 - XV700SS TOP END GASKET KIT
1986 VIRAGO 700 - XV700SS VALVE
1986 VIRAGO 700 - XV700SSC TOP END GASKET KIT
1986 VIRAGO 700 - XV700SSC VALVE
1987 VIRAGO 1100 - XV1100T VALVE
1987 VIRAGO 1100 - XV1100TC VALVE
1987 VIRAGO 700 - XV700CT TOP END GASKET KIT
1987 VIRAGO 700 - XV700CT VALVE
1987 VIRAGO 700 - XV700CTC TOP END GASKET KIT
1987 VIRAGO 700 - XV700CTC VALVE
1988 VIRAGO 1100 - XV1100U VALVE
1988 VIRAGO 1100 - XV1100UC VALVE
1988 VIRAGO 750 - XV750U VALVE
1988 VIRAGO 750 - XV750UC VALVE
1989 VIRAGO 1100 - XV1100W VALVE
1989 VIRAGO 1100 - XV1100WC VALVE
1989 VIRAGO 750 - XV750W VALVE
1989 VIRAGO 750 - XV750WC VALVE
1990 VIRAGO 1100 - XV1100A VALVE
1990 VIRAGO 1100 - XV1100AC VALVE
1990 VIRAGO 750 - XV750A VALVE
1990 VIRAGO 750 - XV750AC VALVE
1991 VIRAGO 1100 - XV1100B VALVE
1991 VIRAGO 1100 - XV1100BC VALVE
1991 VIRAGO 750 - XV750B VALVE
1991 VIRAGO 750 - XV750BC VALVE
1992 VIRAGO 1100 - XV1100D VALVE
1992 VIRAGO 1100 - XV1100DC VALVE
1992 VIRAGO 750 - XV750D VALVE
1992 VIRAGO 750 - XV750DC VALVE
1993 VIRAGO 1100 - XV1100E VALVE
1993 VIRAGO 1100 - XV1100EC VALVE
1993 VIRAGO 750 - XV750E VALVE
1993 VIRAGO 750 - XV750EC VALVE
1994 VIRAGO 1100 - XV1100F VALVE
1994 VIRAGO 1100 - XV1100FC VALVE
1994 VIRAGO 750 - XV750F VALVE
1994 VIRAGO 750 - XV750FC VALVE
1995 VIRAGO 1100 - XV1100G VALVE
1995 VIRAGO 1100 - XV1100GC VALVE
1995 VIRAGO 750 - XV750G VALVE
1995 VIRAGO 750 - XV750GC VALVE
1996 VIRAGO 1100 - XV1100H VALVE
1996 VIRAGO 1100 - XV1100HC VALVE
1996 VIRAGO 1100 SPECIAL - XV1100SH VALVE
1996 VIRAGO 1100 SPECIAL - XV1100SHC VALVE
1996 VIRAGO 750 - XV750H1 VALVE
1996 VIRAGO 750 - XV750HC1 VALVE
1997 VIRAGO 1100 - XV1100J VALVE
1997 VIRAGO 1100 - XV1100JC VALVE
1997 VIRAGO 1100 SPECIAL - XV1100SJ VALVE
1997 VIRAGO 1100 SPECIAL - XV1100SJC VALVE
1997 VIRAGO 750 - XV750J1 VALVE
1997 VIRAGO 750 - XV750JC1 VALVE
1998 VIRAGO 1100 - XV1100K VALVE
1998 VIRAGO 1100 - XV1100KC VALVE
1998 VIRAGO 1100 SPECIAL - XV1100SK VALVE
1998 VIRAGO 1100 SPECIAL - XV1100SKC VALVE
1999 V-STAR 1100 - XVS1100L VALVE
1999 V-STAR 1100 - XVS1100LC VALVE
1999 VIRAGO 1100 - XV1100L VALVE
1999 VIRAGO 1100 - XV1100LC VALVE
2000 V-STAR 1100 CLASSIC - XVS1100AM VALVE
2000 V-STAR 1100 CLASSIC - XVS1100AMC VALVE
2000 V-STAR 1100 CUSTOM - XVS1100M VALVE
2000 V-STAR 1100 CUSTOM - XVS1100MC VALVE
2001 V-STAR 1100 CLASSIC - XVS1100AN VALVE
2001 V-STAR 1100 CLASSIC - XVS1100ANC VALVE
2001 V-STAR 1100 CUSTOM - XVS1100N VALVE
2001 V-STAR 1100 CUSTOM - XVS1100NC VALVE
2002 V-STAR 1100 CLASSIC - XVS1100AP VALVE
2002 V-STAR 1100 CLASSIC - XVS1100APC VALVE
2002 V-STAR 1100 CUSTOM - XVS1100P VALVE
2002 V-STAR 1100 CUSTOM - XVS1100PC VALVE
2003 V STAR 1100 CLASSIC (CAST WHEEL) - XVS1100AWR VALVE
2003 V STAR 1100 SILVERADO (CAST WHEEL) - XVS1100ATR VALVE
2003 V-STAR 1100 CLASSIC - XVS1100AR VALVE
2003 V-STAR 1100 CLASSIC - XVS1100ARC VALVE
2003 V-STAR 1100 CUSTOM - XVS1100R VALVE
2003 V-STAR 1100 CUSTOM - XVS1100RC VALVE
2004 V STAR 1100 CLASSIC - XVS11AS VALVE
2004 V STAR 1100 CLASSIC - XVS11ASC VALVE
2004 V STAR 1100 CUSTOM - XVS11S VALVE
2004 V STAR 1100 CUSTOM - XVS11SC VALVE
2004 V STAR 1100 SILVERADO - XVS11ATS VALVE
2004 V STAR 1100 SILVERADO - XVS11ATSC VALVE
2005 V STAR 1100 CLASSIC - XVS11AWT VALVE
2005 V STAR 1100 CLASSIC - XVS11AWTC VALVE
2005 V STAR 1100 CUSTOM WITH FLAMES - XVS11T-F VALVE
2005 V STAR 1100 CUSTOM WITH FLAMES - XVS11TC-F VALVE
2005 V STAR 1100 MIDNIGHT CUSTOM - XVS11T VALVE
2005 V STAR 1100 MIDNIGHT CUSTOM - XVS11TC VALVE
2005 V STAR 1100 SILVERADO - XVS11ATT VALVE
2005 V STAR 1100 SILVERADO - XVS11ATTC VALVE
2006 V STAR 1100 CLASSIC CAST - XVS11AWV VALVE
2006 V STAR 1100 CLASSIC CAST CA - XVS11AWVC VALVE
2006 V STAR 1100 CUSTOM W-FLAMES - XVS11V-F VALVE
2006 V STAR 1100 CUSTOM W-FLAMES CA - XVS11VC-F VALVE
2006 V STAR 1100 MIDNIGHT CUSTOM - XVS11V VALVE
2006 V STAR 1100 MIDNIGHT CUSTOM CA - XVS11VC VALVE
2006 V STAR 1100 SILVERADO - XVS11ATV VALVE
2006 V STAR 1100 SILVERADO CA - XVS11ATVC VALVE
2007 V STAR 1100 CLASSIC - XVS11AWW VALVE
2007 V STAR 1100 CLASSIC CA - XVS11AWWC VALVE
2007 V STAR 1100 CUSTOM - XVS11W VALVE
2007 V STAR 1100 CUSTOM CA - XVS11WC VALVE
2007 V STAR 1100 CUSTOM MIDNIGHT - XVS11W-M VALVE
2007 V STAR 1100 CUSTOM MIDNIGHT CA - XVS11WC-M VALVE
2007 V STAR 1100 SILVERADO - XVS11ATW VALVE
2007 V STAR 1100 SILVERADO CA - XVS11ATWC VALVE
2008 V STAR 1100 CLASSIC - XVS11AWXB VALVE
2008 V STAR 1100 CLASSIC - XVS11AWXCB VALVE
2008 V STAR 1100 CLASSIC - XVS11AWXCW VALVE
2008 V STAR 1100 CLASSIC - XVS11AWXW VALVE
2008 V STAR 1100 CUSTOM - XVS11XCL VALVE
2008 V STAR 1100 CUSTOM - XVS11XL VALVE
2008 V STAR 1100 MIDNIGHT CUSTOM - XVS11XCB VALVE
2008 V STAR 1100 SILVERADO - XVS11ATXB VALVE
2008 V STAR 1100 SILVERADO - XVS11ATXCB VALVE
2008 V STAR 1100 SILVERADO - XVS11ATXCR VALVE
2008 V STAR 1100 SILVERADO - XVS11ATXR VALVE
2009 V STAR 1100 CLASSIC - XVS11AWYCG VALVE
2009 V STAR 1100 CLASSIC - XVS11AWYCR VALVE
2009 V STAR 1100 CLASSIC - XVS11AWYG VALVE
2009 V STAR 1100 CLASSIC - XVS11AWYR VALVE
2009 V STAR 1100 CUSTOM - XVS11YCR VALVE
2009 V STAR 1100 CUSTOM - XVS11YR VALVE
2009 V STAR 1100 MIDNIGHT CUSTOM - XVS11YB VALVE
2009 V STAR 1100 MIDNIGHT CUSTOM - XVS11YCB VALVE
2009 V STAR 1100 SILVERADO - XVS11ATYB VALVE
2009 V STAR 1100 SILVERADO - XVS11ATYCB VALVE
2009 V STAR 1100 SILVERADO - XVS11ATYCL VALVE
2009 V STAR 1100 SILVERADO - XVS11ATYL VALVE
2015 SR400 - SR400FCGY VALVE
2015 SR400 - SR400FGY VALVE

 

[5twins]

You might consider these. They are actually cheaper than the plain rubber ones Mike's sells and should be better since they are Viton rubber. I'm going to try them but haven't yet .....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/231216641759?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

 

[abyssmaltailgate]

Thanks for the replies, gggGary and 5twins! That comprehensive list is amazing, and the claims about the Viton rubber are interesting (I'm wondering if anybody has any experience with them?) It's always helpful when a guru chimes in; however, I'm still curious about the Kibblewhite valve "guides". Surely, they're a "performance part" intended for more or less the same purpose as valve seals because I don't see "valve guides" anywhere in Haynes?

 

[5twins]

Right at the bottom of the Kibblewhite page, they tell you to use the O.E.M. seal. Yes, there are some engines that use only guides and no seals. The old '70s BMWs are like that. But most Jap bikes use valve guide seals. Without seals, the guide to valve clearance needs to be very good, tight, or you will suck oil down through them. With a rubber seal on top, clearances can get a bit loose and you'll still be OK. You won't be sucking oil and blowing white smoke all over the place, lol. In fact, in one BMW hop-up article I read, they cut grooves into the top of stock guides and put 650 guide seals on them.

 

[abyssmaltailgate]

Ah, I see that now...

My question now, and this may seem a bit redundant or arbitrary at this point, what exactly is the valve guides intended purpose or function? Judging by the name, I'm guessing it "guides" the valve as they opens and close to better maintain tighter tolerances within the engine head. If this is the case, the performance benefit seems fairly obvious, yet I'm wondering how much of a difference it really makes? I'm probably going to run my bike without this time around, but if anybody has anything good or bad to say about them, I'm all ears!

 

[5twins]

Your bike has valve guides in it already. It's not an optional add-on. The Kibblewhite ones are just aftermarket, maybe better made, ones. What they're made of may be longer wearing or something. Maybe better at heat transferring. Valve guides aren't something most of us replace unless they are obviously worn out. But they're usually not. After dis-assembling the head (removing the valves) slip them back in their corresponding guide to check the fit. They should be a slip, sliding fit with no noticeable side to side play. If they wiggle in the hole, the guide is worn out. Now, there are specs in the shop manual for the exact amount of side play you can have but it involves setting up a dial gauge against the side of the valve to measure the "wiggle" amount. The spec is very small, in the thousandths of an inch. The quick and dirty, poor man's test is just to test if they wiggle in the hole. If no wiggle, they are usually good enough to keep using.

 

[Jack]

You might consider these. They are actually cheaper than the plain rubber ones Mike's sells and should be better since they are Viton rubber. I'm going to try them but haven't yet .....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/231216641759?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

much better and will last longer.

 

[Jack]

Kibblewhite makes an assortment of valve train components for the XS650. I'm planning on running their springs and valves with my 277 rephased cam with stock lift... Anyway, they make "valve guides" for our bikes, but I don't see any valve seals. They appear to serve the same function although the guides are longer than the stock seals mentioned in the Haynes manual. I'm wondering if this keeps the valves in position better.

Attached is the page from their catalog that features the XS products. Additionally, here's the link to the catalog: https://issuu.com/kibblewhite/docs/2015kpmi_full_catalog_v1?e=18458457/14429959#search

(their table of contents is off... XS650 goodies on pg. 199, not pg. 195)

Bit of advice for you,their intake valves are good but the exhaust valve faces don't hold up due to cupping from my experience with my BMW R/90S. If you do any racing the K/W valve spring tension would hold up in comparison to R/D springs.

 

[abyssmaltailgate]

I appreciate all the help from everybody. I did some more skimming of the Haynes and found the valve guides in the assembly for the engine head, that and I looked at the head itself lol . Both of my guides seem fit for use; however, I'm considering having the intake and exhaust ported and polished, so I'll need to remove the guides. I'll have to remember you advice, Jack, if I replace them. Doesn't look like Yamaha manufactures the part anymore... wondering what a good source for exhaust valve guides is if I do need to replace them?

 

[Jack]

If you ever need to replace the valves,get the Virago 750 valves and cut the v/h down to 650 dimension. The thicker margin will reduce flow resistance on the intakes and the exhaust you want to cut a small radius 30 degree cut on the bottom face ridge to reduce flow resistance on the bottom thick face margin and the tulip shape will aid flow. These valves are of good quality for street use,little high new but worth every penny in my book. Stay away from a certain parts vendor not Hoos ,as their valves are pure junk and I've seen it where the valve heads snap off. As for the guide replacement ,go to machine shop to have good quality bronze liners installed like manganese.

 

[5twins]

You usually don't remove the guides when porting, you just work around them. Block the holes off, yes. I thread strips of oil soaked rags through mine to keep all the porting debris out. After the porting is done and the head cleaned, I pull the rag strips and swab the holes out with Q-tips dipped in oil. Then the valves can go back in.